Acquisition

[gusi]

We always struggle with Acquisition and Bracketing.


A a target hex contains two locations a trench and a pillbox both are occupied by KEU.

1. A gun shoots at the trench as ITT and gains a -2 small acquisition counter after two shots
2. The defenders skulk away out of LOS during their MPh
3. In the DFPh the gun shoots as area type and transfers to a -2 large acquisition counter
4. the infantry advances back in the trench and pillbox
5. The gun can in the PFPh attack either location with a -2 Acquisition DRM counter as an ITT target?

If the gun hadn't shot as area type in step 3, the acquisition would have stayed as a small counter on the trench?
Or could it transfer to the pillbox straight away. I would have thought not.

 

[Robin Reeve]

1. : you targeted the units in the Trench, not the Trench.
2. : I presume that the infantry has units separate and move into the Trench and the Pillbox, as the latter are separate Locations?

Otherwise, your example seems legit.

 

[gusi]

Thanks Robin, tes to pt2

I guess the key point (for me) is 3 that you cannot place the area acquisition counter without taking a ATT shot

 

[Larry]

3. Was there a concealed unit in the trench that warranted a shot?

Switching to a 5/8" acq. and shooting risks breakdown or SAN.

 

[gusi]

No it was a question on how you would change or transfer acquisition between locations.
Whether it would make sense to place a pillbox and a trench in the same hex when the opponent has a gun.

 

[EagleIV]

If during step 3 you are willing to risk SAN and breakdown this works even if there are no enemy units on the map in the hex (and even if you know there is nothing HIP there). Then in step 5 you can use the -2 acq in either location.

Yesterday my opponent violated one of his principles and fired his Sherman MA at my MG position (they went back to recover the MG they left behind before when the broke), broke the MA and in that same MPh I ran a T34 around to his side and burned him.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

No it was a question on how you would change or transfer acquisition between locations.

I don't think you had to fire in (3); you could have used the acq for an ATT shot in (5) and converted it to a large ACQ (C6.52) since the target hex remains the same.

 

[EagleIV]

I don't think you had to fire in (3); you could have used the acq for an ATT shot in (5) and converted it to a large ACQ (C6.52) since the target hex remains the same.

Yes this works as well, except that in step 5 the shot has to be ATT, not ITT and I think the intent of the OP was that step 5 be an ITT shot with the -2 acq. at either the PB or Trench. Also you could take an ITT shot in step 5 at the Trench, but not the PB with the -2 acq.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

Thanks @EagleIV, I missed the intent of being able to convert to either.

 

[gusi]

Thanks for all the answers everyone. It prompted me for a related question

A Following a moving target

1. A trench contains two infantry units. A gun has a small -2 Acquisitition counter on the two units
2. It is the units movement phase.

The first unit moves one hex, stays in LOS then another hex and stays in LOS.
It then stops and ends its MPh.
This is the last opportunity for the Gun place the Acquisition counter on the first unit.
3) The Gun did not place the acquisition counter on the first unit.
The second unit moves one hex, stays in LOS then another hex and stays in LOS.
It then stops and ends its MPh.
This is the last opportunity for the Gun place the Acquisition counter on the second unit.
4) If the gun didn't place the Acquisition counter on the first or second unit, can it leave the small acquisition counter on the trench location?

 

[Doug Leslie]

Thanks for all the answers everyone. It prompted me for a related question

A Following a moving target

1. A trench contains two infantry units. A gun has a small -2 Acquisitition counter on the two units
2. It is the units movement phase.

The first unit moves one hex, stays in LOS then another hex and stays in LOS.
It then stops and ends its MPh.
This is the last opportunity for the Gun place the Acquisition counter on the first unit.
3) The Gun did not place the acquisition counter on the first unit.
The second unit moves one hex, stays in LOS then another hex and stays in LOS.
It then stops and ends its MPh.
This is the last opportunity for the Gun place the Acquisition counter on the second unit.
4) If the gun didn't place the Acquisition counter on the first or second unit, can it leave the small acquisition counter on the trench location?

6.51 A ½" Acquired-counter DRM gained against a stack cannot be retained on all those units should they scatter and enter different Locations. The firer may retain only one such Acquired counter; he may not create more to cover several targets at once. He may choose which of his previously acquired targets will remain acquired, but need not specify which one until he fires at it or that unit has finished its MPh/APh/RtPh/CCPh-Withdrawal (whichever occurs first). If an acquired target leaves its present Location and thereby goes out of the firer's LOS (as per 6.15; a free LOS check may be made to ascertain if this occurred), the ½" Acquired counter remains in the last Location that target occupied prior to leaving the acquirer's LOS.

My interpretation of this is that, if the gun doesn't keep acquisition on the first unit to move away, it has to retain it on the second one. It cannot leave the 1/2 counter in situ.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I agree with @Doug Leslie, you have to track one of the moving units.

 

[Larry]

In Gusi's example, the acq must track the second unit because it declined to track the first. The choice is while the first unit is moving, one hex .... you tracking or staying put? Second hex, too late to pick up tracking. Choices have to be made and choices have consequences. This isn't SL where we get to see all the moves and then back them up to take shots.

 

[Michael R]

In Gusi's example, the acq must track the second unit because it declined to track the first. The choice is while the first unit is moving, one hex .... you tracking or staying put? Second hex, too late to pick up tracking. Choices have to be made and choices have consequences. This isn't SL where we get to see all the moves and then back them up to take shots.

The rule quoted actually said the decision could be made at the end of the first unit’s MPh.

 

[Gordon]

6.51 A ½" Acquired-counter DRM gained against a stack cannot be retained on all those units should they scatter and enter different Locations. The firer may retain only one such Acquired counter; he may not create more to cover several targets at once. He may choose which of his previously acquired targets will remain acquired, but need not specify which one until he fires at it or that unit has finished its MPh/APh/RtPh/CCPh-Withdrawal (whichever occurs first). If an acquired target leaves its present Location and thereby goes out of the firer's LOS (as per 6.15; a free LOS check may be made to ascertain if this occurred), the ½" Acquired counter remains in the last Location that target occupied prior to leaving the acquirer's LOS.

My interpretation of this is that, if the gun doesn't keep acquisition on the first unit to move away, it has to retain it on the second one. It cannot leave the 1/2 counter in situ.

But if the unit or units "skulks", the acquisition remains in the hex as per the last sentence of the quote, right? Or if the unit/units are wiped out?

 

[Doug Leslie]

But if the unit or units "skulks", the acquisition remains in the hex as per the last sentence of the quote, right? Or if the unit/units are wiped out?

I think that this would play out as follows: after the first unit skulks, the acquiring unit can declare that it is going to retain acquisition in the hex that it left. In that event, it cannot maintain acquisition on the second unit if it starts to move elsewhere. If the acquiring unit doesn't declare that it is maintaining acquisition on the first unit, what happens next is dependent on what the second unit does. If it moves away from the hex but within LOS, the acquisition counter must follow it unless and until it moves out of LOS, in which case it remains in the last hex to which LOS exists. If the second unit also skulks, the acquisition counter remains in place.
If the target units are wiped out, 6.51 no longer applies. In fact, that situation is not considered in 6.5 either! Common sense suggests that the acquisition counter remains in place in the same way as if both units had simply skulked but YMMV.

 

[Russ Isaia]

Maybe I missed this case but -- what if the first unit moves one hex but remains in LOS, then ends its MPh. The gun holds fire, expecting to follow the second unit. That unit moves one hex and remains in LOS, but gets KIA'ed by someone else. Where is the acq. counter now: the corpse Location, the original Trench, nowhere? I guess the corpse Location because (a) the first unit can't be followed at this point and (b) the second unit "left" the gun's LOS in the corpse Location, just not by the usual means (that is, by dying rather than moving out of LOS). Am I right?

 

[Robin Reeve]

You are right.
ASL rarely requires bookkeeping of past events.

 

[Larry]

Once you have one choice to track, tracking is mandatory.

C6.5
During the MPh, squad A enters a Location occupied by the non-moving squad B, where it is fired on by a Gun using ITT. An
acquisition marker is placed. Squad A then continues to another Location that is also in LOS of the Gun. May the Defender choose
to leave the acquisition marker in the Location occupied by squad B?
A. No.

If the gun cannot keep the acq. counter in a hex now occupied by an unacquired unit, the gun cannot leave the acq. on the original hex when the unit is capable of being tracked.

 

[Old Noob]

Bill Mauldin cartoon: A tank commander says to the infantry he's been supporting: "We'll leave and stop bothering you guys now. Jerry's got our range."