Acquisition and BFF

[Pyth]

Situtation: A stopped AFV fires as the first action of it's Mph, prior to starting... (It never occured to me to ask before , but does this require expenditure of a delay MP?). The AFV has a -1 acq on its target from the previous turn. Can it claim that acq with this fire? Can it place additional acq and intensive fire (after spending another delay MP)? Or does C6.55 gyrostablizer apply and all the Acq is NA. C6.55 seems pretty clear, but it also seems contrary to the spirit of rules around defensive gun duels etc. It seems like attacker fire at the very beginning of the Mph is a special case for gun duels -- but not for Acq? Or is there some fine point I'm missing.

 

[Brian W]

Or does C6.55 gyrostablizer apply and all the Acq is NA.

This. You cannot use/gain ACQ during your MPh unless Gyrostabilized.

 

[jrv]

A vehicle may fire as the first action of its MPh, before it expends any MP and whether stopped or not. Unlike DFF, BFF is not exactly tied to MP spent (and in a minute we will see that DFF is not 100% tied to MP expenditures either). A vehicle may BFF at any time (other when when performing other actions, e.g. making a MP expenditure or going CE/BU, etc.). For example a Soviet T-35 may, before making any MP expenditures, make one attack with one of its BMG, a second (at a different target probably; mandatory firegroup and all that) with its AAMG, a third with one of its 45L sub-turrets, a fourth with the second BMG, a fifth with the second 45L, a sixth with the CMG and a seventh with its MA. All before making any MP expenditures. The T-35 MA does not get ROF, but if it did per C5.3 the MA could not fire again after keeping ROF until after a MP expenditure, so BFF and MP expenditures are linked in that way.

Because the ATTACKER may attack before any MP expenditures and DFF is (mostly) linked to MP expenditures, the rules allow the DEFENDER to declare a DEFENDER Gun Duel when the ATTACKER announces an attack without having spent any MP [C5.33]. That will allow the DEFENDER to use DFF even though the ATTACKER has not made any MP expenditures.

JR

 

[Pyth]

Ok. So no mp expenditure needed for the first shot of each weapon (but mp expenditure required for subsequent ROF shots) and there's no talk of any of this involving Acquisition. In the actual game that prompted this question the situtation was a bit more complicated and I wonder if we handled it correctly *(I'm thinking we didn't)...

Opponent (Russian) had two radioless tanks using platoon movement starting their Mph by declaring bounding first fire at my stationary Pzkw 38(t)A. So he declared fire from the two tanks simultaneously (is that right)? My Pz38ta declared a defensive gun duel and had better gun duel DRMs than either russian tank. I resolved the fire and destroyed one of the russian tanks - then the russian second tank fired and scored a hit (but no damage) while keeping ROF. To there the way it worked out seems reasonable, but the declaration of simultaneous fire from platooned tanks intersecting with gun duel seems like it could get fiddly. Was all that ok? And further....

When the Russian gets ROF he has to spend a delay MP before firing again. So he declared a 1 mp delay expenditure and fired.... did my Pz38 have the option of gun duelling again with intensive fire? Did other AFVs in the area have a DFF shot against the Russian AFV's rof shot (because of the 1mp expenditure) And would the Russian have a gun duel opportunity to get off his shot before the DFF'ing others -- and what part would ROF ratings play in that gun duel? --- I don't know if that question is even intelligible but if it was, answers appreciated.

 

[Mr Incredible]

The Pz38 could not IF as a Gun Duel before the the Russian takes its second shot.

The Defender can declare a Gun Duel only before the attacker has spent any MP, after it has sent a MP the Defender has to take its medicine before responding.

 

[jrv]

So he declared fire from the two tanks simultaneously (is that right)?

No, unless there was a firegroup somehow involved. Otherwise attacks (and a firegroup is really just one attack, even if multiple units/weapons are involved) are announced and completed one at a time.

When the Russian gets ROF he has to spend a delay MP before firing again. So he declared a 1 mp delay expenditure and fired.... did my Pz38 have the option of gun duelling again with intensive fire?

No, the DEFENDER Gun Duel can only be made if the moving unit has not spent any MP yet. However the Pz38 could now use ordinary DFF (based on the delay expenditure) and the ATTACKER could declare a more-common Gun Duel. Unless the ATTACKER won the gun duel, the DEFENDER would fire first.

Did other AFVs in the area have a DFF shot against the Russian AFV's rof shot (because of the 1mp expenditure) And would the Russian have a gun duel opportunity to get off his shot before the DFF'ing others -- and what part would ROF ratings play in that gun duel?

The MP expenditure allows all DEFENDER units to declare DFF. Note that the ATTACKER would not announce any attack as part of the MP expenditure. Instead the ATTACKER would announce, "One MP, Delay. Any DFF?" If the DEFENDER announced DFF, the ATTACKER could declare Gun Duel as allowed. If the DFF were from a unit out of CA, a Gun Duel would not be allowed.

JR

 

[jrv]

The Pz38 could not IF as a Gun Duel before the the Russian takes its second shot.

The Defender can declare a Gun Duel only before the attacker has spent any MP, after it has sent a MP the Defender has to take its medicine before responding.

In general a moving vehicle may declare a MP expenditure (but no BFF attack yet), and the DEFENDER may respond with DFF. After resolution of DFF, the ATTACKER may declare another MP expenditure or a BFF attack. The beginning of the unit's MPh is odd because the ATTACKER can announce an attack before any MP expenditure, i.e. before any DFF (and so the DEFENDER gun duel was created). Typically (i.e. after MP expenditures have started) the DEFENDER will make DFF attacks before any BFF attacks (unless the ATTACKER makes a successful gun duel).

JR