ABTF HASL - Why do you hate it? Why don't you hate it?

[Eagle4ty]

As for making concessions on the ABTF CG(s) to make it more balanced, it can be argued it is historically accurate the way it is, i.e., British were defeated; W/L record across 3 CGs: 27-5 for the German. I personally wouldn't be interested in it if designers had to make ahistorical concessions to make it more balanced. That's just me.

The problem may be the VC then as I believe one can adhere to historicity without destroying the play-ability. I don't own nor have I played ABTF so I'm not sure if I'm just blowing smoke here, but if one can establish a VC (even a phyric one) that the Brits can attain it would go a ways to balance out the CG or the CG scenarios. This approach was utilized in the Mini-CG Market Garden by offering a sliding scale for victory based upon how long it took a side to accomplish their objectives even in a one sided fight and a cumulative VP count to determine the final victor over the series of the CG.

 

[DVexile]

As for making concessions on the ABTF CG(s) to make it more balanced, it can be argued it is historically accurate the way it is, i.e., British were defeated; W/L record across 3 CGs: 27-5 for the German. I personally wouldn't be interested in it if designers had to make ahistorical concessions to make it more balanced. That's just me.

But by that argument every ASL scenario should be very unbalanced since they are all historical and all had a winner and a loser.

 

[Honza]

It can be balanced without being ahistorical - that's what the VCs are for. It's not as of its difficult to do, just change the date the Paras have to hold out for.

That is what I figured. If you shorten the 16 date CG by two dates then the Brits have a much better chance.

 

[M.Koch]

I never felt that ABtF is hated by the majority of the ASL commuity, though it´s know that the CG is pretty unbalanced.
Despite that i think that "Market Garden" scenarios are well liked. So is ABtF?!
ABtF came with nice goodies, i mean not the black SS but the Para Brits.

I think ABtF is ok but there are many other HASL i would play before touching it (again).

 

[Carln0130]

It can be balanced without being ahistorical - that's what the VCs are for. It's not as of its difficult to do, just change the date the Paras have to hold out for.

It might be historically accurate but what's the point if it's a 27-5 dog to play? Read a book or watch a film - this is a game.

Agreed 100%. Not only change the VC but cut the time for the CG considerably too. Noone wants to be on the receiving end of that punishment for a long time. No fun factor in a lopsided fight.

 

[Tuomo]

I hate it because I can't figure out how to replicate its funky Wall artwork for the v2 update.

 

[Actionjick]

Agreed 100%. Not only change the VC but cut the time for the CG considerably too. Noone wants to be on the receiving end of that punishment for a long time. No fun factor in a lopsided fight.

Basically true about the punishment. Makes it hard as the one receiving the thrashing to not just lash out and get in some punishment too. Sometimes that's the best course of action not only for the game but one's gaming psyche.

 

[bendizoid]

I played one scenario from here, I generated 3 heros for the Brits then brought them together with a 10-3 leader for a super duper nasty -6 stack, lol.

 

[von Marwitz]

I played one scenario from here, I generated 3 heros for the Brits then brought them together with a 10-3 leader for a super duper nasty -6 stack, lol.

Betcha also found a cache of three ATRs to make the Heroic DRMs reach out?

von Marwitz

 

[thedrake]

Hate the CG because of the block control mechanism. Plus length of CG assures a German win most of the time.
Have played all the ABtF scenarios and really like them.

 

[M Faulkner]

Played the CG 7 times vs 4 different opponent, its a dog, SS Marschiert to victory each time.
Have a list of radical/historical suggestions of updates, to implement if it would be played again , but intrest is lackning.

Played most of the scenarios and they are much better than the CG, although some could need balance updates and improvements.

Please email me. I would love to hear your list of “radical/historical suggestions “.

 

[M Faulkner]

One of handful,

of the balance/improvements to the CG, if it would be played again, is to include Gräbner's Folly into the CG, a choice never taken, due to the many crappy AFVs.

ASL Scenario Archive

www.aslscenarioarchive.com

Now CPP must be spent by the German player and the charge attack must be conducted.

Interesting idea. Gräbner's RG has always been an issue because no one wants to purchase units to be slaughtered. Email me your thoughts.

 

[M Faulkner]

Now that everyone is building huge tables for their Manila maps, it's time to revisit this

Would love to do a Nijmegen CG and scenarios.

 

[M Faulkner]

It can be balanced without being ahistorical - that's what the VCs are for. It's not as of its difficult to do, just change the date the Paras have to hold out for.

Exactly! Working on that!

 

[M Faulkner]

I hate it because I can't figure out how to replicate its funky Wall artwork for the v2 update.

Email me

 

[M Faulkner]

Hate the CG because of the block control mechanism. Plus length of CG assures a German win most of the time.
Have played all the ABtF scenarios and really like them.

I get your issue with the Block Control. Hennie and I discussed it early on, but I have kept it in 2nd Ed. In the redesign, VP are awarded for Block Control at the end of each CG scenario, and is not just used for defining setup areas.

 

[M Faulkner]

Just a small update on ABtF 2E:

There will be 13 scenarios total. All the old scenarios are being updated/balanced. There are three new scenarios.

The CGs are being reworked. Carl N. Gave me some good advice about some possible ways to make things better.
As mentioned earlier, Block Control will also be associated with cumulative VP. There has been some changes and updates to both the German and the British RGs. There are no more King Tigers for the Germans. I have spoken to a couple of respected authors/historians on the battle. They were not available for the Fighting at the Bridge.
Hopefully, you will see a much better set of CGs.

 

[thedrake]

No Jadgpanthers in KG Graebner RG A4 SPG Platoon , I hope???

 

[daveramsey]

Just a small update on ABtF 2E:

Interesting - looking forward to it. Will there be an errata list/update notes or is this expected to be a product that people will have to buy again to play the balanced campaign?

 

[M Faulkner]

Interesting - looking forward to it. Will there be an errata list/update notes or is this expected to be a product that people will have to buy again to play the balanced campaign?

Well, the entire project will also include: Pegasus Bridge 2nd Edition, Primosole Bridge 2nd Edition, and Ponte Grande Bridge (1st Edition). The 2nd Editions have changes and improvements to the maps, updated scenarios, and new scenarios.