Abandoning Vehicle and Pinning

[buser333]

During the opponent's PFPh, a crew is forced to abandon a vehicle due to a failed TC after it is hit with a shot that immobilizes their vehicle.
In the process of abandonment they Pin.
No longer subject to Hazardous Movement, they still break from a subsequent shot.

Now the question is: Are they once again subject to Hazardous Movement upon further shooting? Or does the original act of Pinning prevent any further Hazardous Movement?

 

[Eagle4ty]

During the opponent's PFPh, a crew is forced to abandon a vehicle due to a failed TC after it is hit with a shot that immobilizes their vehicle.
In the process of abandonment they Pin.
No longer subject to Hazardous Movement, they still break from a subsequent shot.

Now the question is: Are they once again subject to Hazardous Movement upon further shooting? Or does the original act of Pinning prevent any further Hazardous Movement?

Per D5.6 it says they're subject to it during the rest of that phase so I would say the -2 HAZ MV applies even tough previously Pinned (and could find nothing that would even remotely overturn that not to mention of D5.6 being a higher numbered rule and all).

 

[Stewart]

-2 HAZ MOV is not simply FFMO/FFNAM rolled into one.
Its a separate modifier, related to, you guessed it, Hazardous Movement activities.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Someone must really not like that crew - shooting at them three times (or more)...

 

[buser333]

My confusion lies in the A4.62 phrase "until they are pinned."

It doesn't say "unless they are pinned." I could easily see an interpretation of this being that, once subject to any form of pin, Hazardous Movement no longer applies.

Tom's reference to D5.6 however makes things even more confusing to me.
There it says (the crew) "is subject to the effects of Hazardous Movement vs all subsequent attacks during that phase"

This to me says that, even if pinned they would be subject to HM.
This could make realistic sense as the process of abandonment takes their entire turn.

I imagine the intent, much like FFMO/FFNAM, is to make a unit subject to HM while in the process of "moving" (not currently under Pin), but that's just a guess.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This to me says that, even if pinned they would be subject to HM.

I would not make that interpretation - it uses the term Hazardous Movement - then you need to look at that rule to see what applies. The ASL rulebook usually don't repeat (for good reason) things from other rules.....

....had it said "even if pinned" - then the basics of Haz. Mvt rule would have been overruled.

 

[TomServo]

I've read through the references to Hazardous Movement acts listed in the Index, and it appears that Crew Survival (D5.6) is a unique case. The wording of D6.5 states "is subject to the effects of Hazardous Movement... vs all subsequent attacks during that phase." That can be read as varying from A4.62 "incur a -2 IFT DRM to any attacks against units so engaged regardless of fire phase until they are pinned (if subject to Pin results)." The difference is that Haz. Move. only applies during the phase the CS occurs; however, as Klas notes "the basics of Haz. Mvt" is not modified.

The interpretation of A4.62 rests on whether "until pinned" is a final or temporary condition, ending if the pinned unit breaks. Other acts of Hazardous Movement (clearance, pushing; fording and parachuting are NA due to immunity from Pin) can result in a unit pinning and then breaking; does the unit engaged in that act resume the act after a pin - break sequence? There are very few instances in ASL where a status can thus end and then resume, so it seems inconsistent that Hazardous Movement can cease (when a unit pins) and then resume when the pinned unit breaks.

If so, then: a squad pushing a gun is attacked and pinned; Hazardous Movement no longer applies. The squad is attacked immediately thereafter and breaks, and thus resume pushing since that act is required to qualify for Hazardous Movement.

The phrase reads "until pinned" and not "unless pinned" - thus Hazardous Movement no longer applies once the Pin occurs, and does not resume when the Pin status ends.