A8.15 and Bocage..

mgmasl

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1- Are the special abilities of this rule for wall/hedge also applied to Bocage hexside?

2- If so, may a unit with WA behind bocage be affected by snap shots by non-adjacent units in the other side of the Bocage hexside?
3- May a unit forfeit WA to a Bocage hexside to be out of LOS from non-adjacent units at 0MF before to exit to avoid this kind of snap shots? Or is this automatic and so no snap shot possible from non-adjacent units?

Thanks
 

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  1. I should think so.
  2. I don't see any reason why not
  3. If WA is not mandatory, sure.
JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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3- May a unit forfeit WA to a Bocage hexside to be out of LOS from non-adjacent units at 0MF before to exit to avoid this kind of snap shots? Or is this automatic and so no snap shot possible from non-adjacent units?
Per B9.41 WA is always lost "when a unit starts entering a new Location." So you lose WA when you starts entering a new Location and thusly if behind Bocage you are out of LOS from non-adjacent units.

9.41 WA is always lost when a unit starts entering a new Location. A unit may not re-claim WA during its MPh if exit of its current Location fails (e.g., A12.15, B28.41, E1.53) unless mandatory WA (9.323) applies.
 

mgmasl

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Per B9.41 WA is always lost "when a unit starts entering a new Location." So you lose WA when you starts entering a new Location and thusly if behind Bocage you are out of LOS from non-adjacent units.

9.41 WA is always lost when a unit starts entering a new Location. A unit may not re-claim WA during its MPh if exit of its current Location fails (e.g., A12.15, B28.41, E1.53) unless mandatory WA (9.323) applies.
IMHO, then no option to snap shot [except from adjacent enemy units] because units exiting the hex are out of LOS [from non-adjacent] before to start moving.

I think WA is irrelevant for those Adjacent enemy units because those enemy units have always LOS to the 1st hex behind the bocage and no need to LOS to the hex moved into because the text of A8.15 about moving/exiting blind hexes. Or do the adjacent enemy units need WA [and LOS] to the hex moved into to get the option of snap shots?
 

klasmalmstrom

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IMHO, then no option to snap shot [except from adjacent enemy units] because units exiting the hex are out of LOS [from non-adjacent] before to start moving.

I think WA is irrelevant for those Adjacent enemy units because those enemy units have always LOS to the 1st hex behind the bocage and no need to LOS to the hex moved into because the text of A8.15 about moving/exiting blind hexes. Or do the adjacent enemy units need WA [and LOS] to the hex moved into to get the option of snap shots?
No I don't think the adjacent units need WA - since LOS to the hexside is enough.
 

Pyth

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No I don't think the adjacent units need WA - since LOS to the hexside is enough.
Not sure this matters at all but just wondering... since the exiting unit loses WA (and assuming no other friendly remains in the hex to hold the claim) I think an adjacent enemy thru the bocage will get WA "as soon as possible" if it is mandatory.... but im not clear when as soon as possible really is in this snapshot case... whether that means it would have WA when it takes the snap shot or only after the exiting unit completes A) it's entire MF expenditure into the next hex, or B) a first MF expenditure in the next hex. Or something else... I'm thinking about the last sentence of B9.322:

Claiming/forfeiting WA can never be done between an enemy action being declared and that action being completed, e.g., fire vs the unit claiming WA.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Not sure this matters at all but just wondering... since the exiting unit loses WA (and assuming no other friendly remains in the hex to hold the claim) I think an adjacent enemy thru the bocage will get WA "as soon as possible" if it is mandatory.... but im not clear when as soon as possible really is in this snapshot case... whether that means it would have WA when it takes the snap shot or only after the exiting unit completes A) it's entire MF expenditure into the next hex, or B) a first MF expenditure in the next hex. Or something else... I'm thinking about the last sentence of B9.322:
For a Snap Shot case, I don't think it matters - since an adjacent unit would have a LOS to the hexside anyway.

If you look at the B9.41 example, you'll see that the 7-4-7 can claim WA when the 4-6-7 loses it (i.e., as it starts to move into the next hex). If the 7-4-7 was in Open Ground then Mandatory WA applies, and I think it would in that case get WA immediately as the 4-6-7 loses it (again, as it starts to move into the next hex).
 

mgmasl

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For a Snap Shot case, I don't think it matters - since an adjacent unit would have a LOS to the hexside anyway.
This is the key answer to my question… even with no WA only units Adjacent to the bocage hexside may fire, because all the others have no LOS once the unit starts moving.
 
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