A23.31 WP hit on foxholes with Airburst

[Legion]

A24.31 states that a NMC must be taken from a WP hit with TEM affecting the NMC as negative DRM; cool we all know that.

But does the line: "However, if a CH (or an airburst if using indirect fire) is obtained with WP, TEM are applied to the NMC as a positive DRM instead", then mean that WP is as especially lethal against woods/jungle enemy as it seems?

Thus in the case i am thinking of... a US unit in a foxhole in the jungle is hit with Japanese MTR WP... does this mean that the US unit must take a 2MC?

 

[Brian W]

A24.31 states that a NMC must be taken from a WP hit with TEM affecting the NMC as negative DRM; cool we all know that.

But does the line: "However, if a CH (or an airburst if using indirect fire) is obtained with WP, TEM are applied to the NMC as a positive DRM instead", then mean that WP is as especially lethal against woods/jungle enemy as it seems?

Thus in the case i am thinking of... a US unit in a foxhole in the jungle is hit with Japanese MTR WP... does this mean that the US unit must take a 2MC?

No; the reversed TEM applies only to the woods TEM, which is then combined with the foxhole TEM for a net +1.

 

[da priest]

Hmm...WP CH in Foxhole in open is NMC+2, or 2MC.

With airburst would be NMC +3, or 3MC?

 

[daniel zucker]

B13.3 Air Bursts

the EX:
EX: A Mortar fires on a woods hex containing a squad in a foxhole. The Final TEM is +1(+2 [foxhole] -1 [Air Burst] = +1).

normaly this +1 is applyed on the IFT DR but a WP hit goes straight to the NMC DR, no IFT involved, so it the case of a WP CH the +1 is added to the MNC DR.


Daniel

 

[Fred Ingram]

Hmm...WP CH in Foxhole in open is NMC+2, or 2MC.

With airburst would be NMC +3, or 3MC?

The image on this page is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_incendiary

 

[Legion]

B13.3 Air Bursts

the EX:
EX: A Mortar fires on a woods hex containing a squad in a foxhole. The Final TEM is +1(+2 [foxhole] -1 [Air Burst] = +1).

normaly this +1 is applyed on the IFT DR but a WP hit goes straight to the NMC DR, no IFT involved, so it the case of a WP CH the +1 is added to the MNC DR.


Daniel

Since it seems that i was reading this correctly about it not being a -2MC but being a +XMN now we have to decide the +X to the NMC...

In both the cases stated by daPriest and Daniel the airburst is added to the TEM thus making it +1 or +3, but the ruling doesn't seem to make that distinction clear... it just says the TEM IF an airburst... not TEM WITH an airburst. so i am inclined to believe at the moment that it would be +2NMC (which is to say that the Airburst causes the TEM to be a +ve, not a -ve only) not the +3/+1... it looks like a hung jury though, can anyone else assist us with this solution?

in any case, this is certainly going to be changing the way i use WP (one of my favorate toys anyway)

 

[Brian W]

Since it seems that i was reading this correctly about it not being a -2MC but being a +XMN now we have to decide the +X to the NMC...

In both the cases stated by daPriest and Daniel the airburst is added to the TEM thus making it +1 or +3, but the ruling doesn't seem to make that distinction clear... it just says the TEM IF an airburst... not TEM WITH an airburst. so i am inclined to believe at the moment that it would be +2NMC (which is to say that the Airburst causes the TEM to be a +ve, not a -ve only) not the +3/+1... it looks like a hung jury though, can anyone else assist us with this solution?

in any case, this is certainly going to be changing the way i use WP (one of my favorate toys anyway)

I am not sure if you are arrving at a 2MC or a -2MC. The correct answer is a -1MC as I posted in the first response.

Think of it this way: are you comfortable with a pillbox in a woods hex facing a 7MC on a non-critical 50mm WP mtr hit, because that is what you seem to be saying.

 

[FrankH.]

I am not sure if you are arrving at a 2MC or a -2MC. The correct answer is a -1MC as I posted in the first response.

Think of it this way: are you comfortable with a pillbox in a woods hex facing a 7MC on a non-critical 50mm WP mtr hit, because that is what you seem to be saying.

Rule says TEM are positive DRM - for a WP hit. I think this refers to TEM that normally would apply to the unit in a Location and subject to a WP hit.

Non CH airburst to unit in a foxhole in woods should be MC, with a -1DRM applying. CH airburst to same should be a 3MC, or a MC with a +3 DRM applying.

Airburst TEM are always reversed, therefore they are a plus DRM to WP MC.

Non CH on a unit in a +5 Pillbox in woods should be a MC with a - 4 DRM.

Isn't that right?

Frank

 

[Brian W]

Rule says TEM are positive DRM - for a WP hit. I think this refers to TEM that normally would apply to the unit in a Location and subject to a WP hit.

Non CH airburst to unit in a foxhole in woods should be MC, with a -1DRM applying. CH airburst to same should be a 3MC, or a MC with a +3 DRM applying.

Airburst TEM are always reversed, therefore they are a plus DRM to WP MC.

Non CH on a unit in a +5 Pillbox in woods should be a MC with a - 4 DRM.

Isn't that right?

Yes, and that is what I said from the git-go. An infantry unit in a foxhole in a woods location that is (non-critcally) hit by a mtr using WP suffers a -1MC because the net TEM DRM is +1. I believe that Legion is saying that it is a +2MC because of an odd sentence in the CH section that seems to say treat all WP hits in woods like CHs.

 

[Legion]

Yes, and that is what I said from the git-go. An infantry unit in a foxhole in a woods location that is (non-critcally) hit by a mtr using WP suffers a -1MC because the net TEM DRM is +1. I believe that Legion is saying that it is a +2MC because of an odd sentence in the CH section that seems to say treat all WP hits in woods like CHs.

You will have to excuse me Brian, becausae i have ben off the board for a while and for my original reply i actually did not notice your post!

I can see what you are saying, though i dont see it being so clear cut until you use the pillbox example... as both are separate areas in a hex for location purposes (B27.13 and B30.1)... so looking at it like this i can see that it WOULD be a -1MC (CH for the airburst and foxhole = -1MC).

Thanks for explaining it... though the ASLRB could do with a little more clarity or an example that encompasses this issue

 

[da priest]

Ok...problem with semantics here:

If you roll a CH in da woods while enemy in foxhole...the MC for the enemy is a 3MC.

If it is a non-CH, the MC is a NMC with a +1 DRM to the DR for the MC...

Are we all in agreement with that?

 

[Brian W]

If it is a non-CH, the MC is a NMC with a +1 DRM to the DR for the MC...

Are we all in agreement with that?

No, the non-critical hit would be a -1 DRM, which represents the application of the +1 TEM to the WP MC.

Hence, we could call it a -1MC. A 666 that made a DR7 would pin on a final DR6.