A question about wounds

[Johnny Canuck]

In my ASLRBv1 in regards to heroes I read:

A15.2 says 'If a wounded hero fails a MC it is eliminated;"

However:

A17.1 says "an unwounded hero is considered wounded instead of broken whenever it fails a MC."

A17.11 says "another dr must be immediately made to determine the severity of the wound. On a dr of 5 or 6 . . . "


Therefore, I have to assume section A17 takes precedent as it provides an expanded level of detail. I could also read that failing a MC in this case also means rolling a 5/6 (or 4 if already wounded) for severity.

Comments?

 

[Nat Mallet]

I'm no ASL expert (yet ) but it seems clear to me; you need to failed MC to kill a hero.

A17.1 explains what happens if an unwounded hero fails a MC.
A15.2 explains what happens if a wounded hero fails a MC.

Or am I missing something?

Nat

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Actually, A17.1 goes onto say that "A wounded man who is wounded again must add a +1 drm to his Wound severity dr".

Therefore A17.1 discusses both.

 

[SamB]

Ah, no...

A Hero that fails a MC becomes wounded... you flip him to his wounded side, or if he's a heroic leader, you mark him wounded.

Whenever a wounded hero suffers a second wound (e.g. he fails a MC) he dies.

You can't apply A17.11 to a hero without making the statement in A15 meaningless. "If a wounded hero fails a MC it is eliminated".

So, a leader who becomes heroic is a "mixed blessing". You have the properties of being a hero, but he dies easier than a regular leader.

Sam

 

[pzkfw5g]

So a hero's second wound is always fatal but only 50% lethal for non-heroes? :? That doesn't make much sense even if the rules read that way.

 

[Brian W]

So a hero's second wound is always fatal but only 50% lethal for non-heroes? :? That doesn't make much sense even if the rules read that way.

It absolutly does not make sense, but that is what the rules say. A broken 7-0 is about as likely to survive a MC than a wounded, heroic 10-3.

 

[Robin Reeve]

It makes sense, because the hero tends to take more risks than a standard leader and refuses to break (= go and lick its wounds out of harm's way)...

 

[Anonymous]

Ran in to this last night. Wounded leader question.

Same thing happened to me, and I'm playing it as you guys are. Wounded hero dies when failing MC (automatic, no wound severity DR). If I understand correctly, an unwounded hero dies if he fails MC and then Wound Severity DR=5 or 6.

It would be a little clearer to me if A17.11 read:
"A wounded leader who is wounded again must add a +1 drm to his Wound severity dr" Replace "man" with "leader". Heroes do not wound twice...ever. Unless they wounded twice as a leader and then became a hero.

Am I playing this right?

 

[Robin Reeve]

I believe you are playing right, Andy...
Or we are both at fault :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Another case...heroic leaders.

Ok, just finished reading this:

A15.21.....A leader which becomes heroic automatically rallies and retains his leadership modifier and all leader capabilities........

Now...If this leader had been wounded and then HoBs to a hero is he:

a) An unwounded 1-4-9 hero or...
b) A wounded 1-3-8 hero.

-And do you use the wounded leader capability mods or not?

I expect if b, he auto dies if failing another MC.
Playing b seems like more fun, but what is the rule?

 

[SamB]

Nowhere in the rules do you find a statement that a Leader who becomes heroic is "healed" of his wounds.

The rule (you quoted) simply says that a leader "rallies" and becomes heroic - and retains his leader modifiers. So, a wounded leader who becomes heroic becomes a wounded Heroic Leader. He can use EITHER his hero DRM on an attack, OR his leader modifier...

If he wounds again, he dies without a DR for wound severity.

Sam

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Sam.

Thanks. The groggies I watched last weekend were rolling wound severity DRs for the previously wounded leader.

Makes one wonder if we're playing a "standard" game. Many groggies have been playing "their" way, which of course they assume to be correct, for 20 years. The FG controversy over some very basic rules was insightful.

Is there a definitive standard for logging a game? Do you use the journal "Game Replay" format? Is VASL logfile format acceptable?
If enough of these, as well as a big ASL rules exam w/answers were posted, maybe people would play a more standard game.

Examples of play (rule book & Tom Repetti's) are very useful for teaching this stuff. I think we need many more, even small ones devoted to DC, FT, BAZ, PTO terrain, rout, guns and AFVs.

 

[SamB]

Yes, of course, if the leader isn't heroic then you -do- roll for wound severity. So this may just be a rule they missed, or forgot.

I think we play a pretty "standard" game, but I think its hard to play a "perfect" game. (e.g. a game without an error in the rules.)

I do agree that more examples would be helpful. I played a couple of games vs. friends and saved the VASL log files. They are available on my website for "new" players to step thro. They don't demonstrate "good" play, and nowhere near to "perfect" play, but they are useful (IMO) to new players who want to gain a little experience.

Sam
http://dicetower.com

 

[andy]

Re: Unwounded Hero fails MC with DR=12

Hi Sam,

Played the groggies again and lost J5 Escape to Wiltz.
My opponent's unwounded Hero rolls a 12 on MC.

-I say he simply takes the Wound Severity dr.
-Opponent says he dies (because he "broke" and "CRed").

-I think I'm right, in any case Heroes don't break.

-When you CR a HS, it's dead, but an SMC wounds.

Thanks.

 

[Treadhead]

Hello, Andy.

If a non-Wounded Hero suffers a Casualty MC, it must add a +1 to its Wound Severity dr... see the EXC in A10.31.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[andy]

Re: Unwounded Hero

Hi Bruce,

On a regular MC, unwounded Hero rolls DR=12.
He then takes a regular wound severity roll and is wounded
or dead as the result (no DRM). If already wounded, he's dead.

On say, a K/2, if he is chosen as the unit CRed, he takes
wound severity roll with DRM of +1. If already wounded, he's dead.

-The fact that 12 was rolled is not relevant, right?

Thanks Bruce!

 

[SamB]

Played the groggies again and lost J5 Escape to Wiltz.
My opponent's unwounded Hero rolls a 12 on MC.

-I say he simply takes the Wound Severity dr.
-Opponent says he dies (because he "broke" and "CRed").

-I think I'm right, in any case Heroes don't break.

-When you CR a HS, it's dead, but an SMC wounds.

Hi.

First, Escape to Wiltz is J88, not J5. :roll:

You're both wrong. :wink:

A 10.31 says that a hero that rolls a 12 is wounded. If he was unwounded before he rolled a 12, he takes a wound severity with a +1 DRM "as if" he were already wounded.

If he really was already wounded when he rolled the 12, he dies. Because heros who fail a MC wound, and the second wound kills a hero.

Sam

 

[SamB]

I also just noticed something in the rules for heros... (A15.2)

I've always thought that a second wound kills a hero. Not quite. The rule actually says that if a wounded hero "fails a morale check" he dies.

So, its posssible that a wounded hero would be selected on a K/# result and actually have to roll for wound severity. I've always played this that the hero dies if he takes a Casualty Reduction for any reason. But that's not (quite) what the rule says.

Sam

 

[andy]

Thanks Sam...Ok, let me see if I got this straight.

Unwounded Hero: Fails MC, gets wounded. Roll severity (No DRM)
Unwounded Hero: Fails MC w/DR=12, gets wounded. Roll severity (DRM +1)

Wounded Hero: Fails MC, dies
Wounded Hero: CR as result of K/#, wounded again, roll severity (DRM +1 for being wounded)

Aha!: Wounded Hero: CR as result of K/# with DR=12, same as last case becuase this is CR not MC (+1 severity DRM for wound, none for DR=12).

Just to be sure.: #KIA kills the hero no matter what if hero is randomly selected.

Andy "someone give me a clue" Newbie

PS: I should have said "in J5"

 

[andy]

Aha is +2

Sam: Would the Aha case be +2?