A Port Too Far -- Wild Bill

M.Koch

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He must employ a lot of Oompa-Loompas, doing all this stuff for him :crosseye: :clown:
 

MrP

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Well, it'll be interesting doing a compare-and-contrast between this an the LFT shippy, boaty one.........
 

Michael Dorosh

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BONUSES: As an added bonus (though not used in this variant) is a small contingent of SS troops

How's that for interesting. Say what you will, the original counter artwork in these modules is at least attractive. If they sold for the starting bid price, the counters might almost be worth it. I wonder what colour the SS counters are.
 

Justiciar

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Looking at the thumbs of the maps (only), I do not believe the WBW map and the LFT map are on the same par, with the latter being the better.

For example if WBW hexes are 40m to be ASL compatible, he has the Normandie Lock 2 hexes wide, ie 80 meters, in actual fact it was 50 meters wide (see Storming St. Nazaire p. 13). One hex is more accurate and the LFT map uses that distance.
 

Vinnie

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Whilst I'm not supporting WBW or knocking LFT, I am of the opinion that often a "realistic" transferene of the ground onto an ASL map may not be the best. Very few European streets are anything close to 40m wide like theyu are represented in ASL yet if you have ever tried defending a narow street village it is very hard due to the lack of fields of fire for MGs etc. An extention of the gate to 2 hexes may actually make it more forbidding an obstacle and play better despite being less geographically accurate.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Whilst I'm not supporting WBW or knocking LFT, I am of the opinion that often a "realistic" transferene of the ground onto an ASL map may not be the best. Very few European streets are anything close to 40m wide like theyu are represented in ASL yet if you have ever tried defending a narow street village it is very hard due to the lack of fields of fire for MGs etc. An extention of the gate to 2 hexes may actually make it more forbidding an obstacle and play better despite being less geographically accurate.
Exactly. Would be interesting to see if any playtesting was done on this St. Nazaire product, and if so, what their comments would be on that point. I don't doubt that the standard of testing was rigorous, and high, on the LFT product.
 

Vinnie

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This was one of the problems I had with the Ortona playtest. The town is a huge wodge of buildings with narrow streets. Due to the lack of command and control rules in ASL the Canadian player could overwhelm and isolate German positions with no real prospect of the defensive position with interlocking fields of fire from MGs sighted down streets. I have no doubt the mapo is historically accurate. It certainly looks like the Italian towns I have seen. It just failed to PLAY like the battle.
 

Michael Dorosh

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This was one of the problems I had with the Ortona playtest. The town is a huge wodge of buildings with narrow streets. Due to the lack of command and control rules in ASL the Canadian player could overwhelm and isolate German positions with no real prospect of the defensive position with interlocking fields of fire from MGs sighted down streets. I have no doubt the mapo is historically accurate. It certainly looks like the Italian towns I have seen. It just failed to PLAY like the battle.
Exactly again. The hard part for a scenario designer sometimes is making a player think like the historical participants, even if the game system gives them no real reason to do so.
 

Justiciar

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Vinnie,

In post 8.

In the specific case of the lock, 40m water obstacle is accurate and as good as it needs to be for play here. Since neither boats/commandos will enter same.

Further the 2 caissons were not 80 meters wide, and this is* something commandos will have to actually deal with, so 40m is better.

Likewise the dock (un)loading zones were open hard top so like a boulevard, not noted on the thumbs.

So, while I take your point about feel of the battle and map design, he has it wrong here*, IMHO.
 

Vinnie

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Vinnie,

In post 8.

In the specific case of the lock, 40m water obstacle is accurate and as good as it needs to be for play here. Since neither boats/commandos will enter same.

Further the 2 caissons were not 80 meters wide, and this is* something commandos will have to actually deal with, so 40m is better.

Likewise the dock (un)loading zones were open hard top so like a boulevard, not noted on the thumbs.

So, while I take your point about feel of the battle and map design, he has it wrong here*, IMHO.
Not really disputing this. I've not got either pack (and will certainly not be buying the WBW one). I was merely pointing out that direct relationship to actual ground is not a certain indicator of playtesting.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Tuesday morning: $129.50

Oh, the humanity!
4 days of bidding to go and it is now up to 180 dollars. Pretty impressive stuff, given you can still get the LFT module for much less than that. That's assuming the buyer actually wants it for the content and not the "collectibility", if he feels there is any. And it's possible; one man's treasure and all that. Or, some people just have money to burn. Which reminds me I haven't sent my annual donation to Tinnitus in yet.

The GREEN STEEL Marine Armor module is up to $305.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREEN-STEEL-MARINE-ARMOR-IN-WORLD-WAR-II-ASL-Module-2_W0QQitemZ190336292955QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c50ed585b&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
 

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I've said this before. This really looks fishy. I bet between the people on this forum and the people they know covers just about everybody who plays (or pretends to play) the game, yet not one person has even the slightest idea who is buying these things.

ASL collections go for about what we would expect.

Real collectors items like SPI's Atlantic Wall go for about two hundred bucks, about what you might expect.

I don't buy it. Pun intended.
 

Morbii

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There's probably one or two unknowing people out there and the rest are Wild Bill's friends upping the bids. It wouldn't surprise me if the only ones he's actually sold are to Pitman, making most/all/more than his money back from the other fake purchases.
 

AZslim

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There's probably one or two unknowing people out there and the rest are Wild Bill's friends upping the bids. It wouldn't surprise me if the only ones he's actually sold are to Pitman, making most/all/more than his money back from the other fake purchases.
Hard to believe somebody would just say to themselves "hey. I don't know squat about this game, I'll pay 300 bucks for something."

I agree Pitman is the only one I know of who actually bought this stuff.

Pitman sort of "took one for the team" if he paid that kind of money. He has pictures and descriptions of a very, very, shoddy product.
 
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dlazov

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I think the problem is that WBW name is on a lot of stuff. He started making modifications and selling them around at least 1982 with SL. Sometime in the early 90s he moved on from making modifications to SL/COI/COD/GI (and interestingly not very much ASL mods until recently) to creating scenarios and mods for computer based war games such as the very first dos based Steel Panthers I, II and III. He then went on to make scenarios for Norm Krugers first computer war game called Tanks! and then you'll find a bunch of scenarios he created for SPWAW (Steel Panthers World at War by Matrix games now) and he created a WBW Raiders web site (now defunct) and also created scenarios for Talonsofts East/West Front series and then Rising Sun. I believe he also created scenarios for CMBB and CMBO.

So in the PC world (and in the board game world more indirectly) he has a large name recognition.

Not saying his new bastardizations are worth it or good, just pointing out a little history on him.
 
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