A personal note from the staff

Dr Zaius

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Guys I do think MMP has earned itself some constructive criticism on occasion for various things, but I also think they are aware of it and actively seeking to work through these issues. I think it's fair to say that Multi-Man Publishing has heard everyone's concerns and feedback and they are proceeding as best they can. Please don't allow the general topic of "how is MMP doing" to overwhelm the rest of our ASL discussions here. Warfare HQ has been around for a long time and we have always been proud of our relationships with the various wargame developers and publishers out there. That doesn't mean we bow to anyone, but it does mean we do our best to offer support where we can. The best way we can do that is by providing a quality destination for wargamers to enjoy. It's good for the hobby and it helps introduce wargamers of one type to different varieties of wargames.

I want all of you to know where we stand. We are wargamers too and we want this hobby to thrive just like you do. Our goal is for the developers and publishers to feel good about coming here and supporting their products and participating in the hobby. No one is immune from criticism here; we all understand that and MMP does too. Having said that, it is not our goal for this particular sub-forum of WHQ to gain a rep as a "negative" place where either the players or official reps feel uncomfortable hanging out.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, these are just my personal thoughts on the matter. This is a good place to come and talk about ASL, let's try to make it even better.
 

Chas Argent

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Yes, because at least two members of that company are also members of this Forum and they deserve the same respect everyone else here deserves.
 

Pitman

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Given that MMP is the only licensed--and therefore official--source of ASL related products, I think it is unrealistic to expect that how well or how poor MMP may be doing various things will not be a regular topic of conversation here. It is only natural and it has nothing to do with MMP qua MMP, but would happen to any company which happened to be in that position.

I do think it is reasonable to desire that those conversations and debates are ones that naturally occur in the course of talking about ASL, and are not primarily the product of anyone with a particular grudge or campaign designed deliberately to tear MMP down.
 

Darrell Andersen

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This strikes me as odd....

I don't feel that MMP gets particularly beat up much beyond AOO being delayed. Drag your feet (for what I feel are reasonably legitimate reasons) on releasing a product for what is now amounting to a significant number of years and you had better expect to catch a plenty o' flak.

Overall I feel that the general level of discourse on the Forums is quite good. The level of vitriol is quite low, nothing like the heyday of the ASLML. Most ASL producers have the same cheerleaders/detractors that they have always had. With the majority of us somewhere in the middle, evaluating each product (MMP and otherwise) on it's own merits.

If members of MMP are complaining, they had best learn to take their lumps when dealing with such an odd subset of humanity as gamers and ASL'ers in particular. This is no news flash for any ASL producer, especially MMP.

I can't imagine that they are complaining for 2 reasons. 1. They have taken far more sustained and irrational public beatings than anything that I have seen on this forum. 2. Brian, Perry, Keith, etc. have NEVER been shy about letting anyone know that they have crossed the line. i.e. MMP can fight their own fights.

If there is more to this than other than Don's perception that MMP is taking it on the chin,I'd like to know.
 

R.S. Barker

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For once, I can actually give some constructive advice about this subject, having seen it all too often in the last 15 years in other gaming communities.

As a computer golfer/designer and beta-tester for the biggest companies of current Computer sims for golf and other genres, I've seen this very thing happen at various golfing and gaming specific forums, wherein the companies had represenatives whom were active members, giving updates and generally reading what the community had to say. They all recieved constructive criticism and help from the members of said community, and in some instances, that very criticism helped to give them postitive input into the current task, or in certain cases, helped to improve the next version of the game via Beta-Testing.

But what invariably happened was the companies grew tired of hearing the same negative comments over and over and literally stopped posting at all. In the long run, that game slowly faded away, the companies went out of business - or switched their focus on a completely new genre of game and left the community to slowly die a slow death.

Albeit I don't see ASL dying, but I hope my point is clear. 8)

Yes, I agree any company has to have a thick skin, but constantly hearing verbal abuse and negative comments does wear on a company's desire to continue to communicate in a positive manner.

Now personally, I do not know any of you, and obviously you don't know me .. but the one thing I've seen is once a company shuts off the lines of communication, it can be very difficult for that game's community to continue to be as friendly and helpful to each other as they were when their game of choice was actively being improved/expanded.

Look at it this way, you might compain because your not getting the next great module/expansion in the series right now, BUT at least you have the company still communicating with you...be thankful for that.

Just my opinion...
 

Dr Zaius

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I didn't say anyone was complaining, and yes I feel that the level of discourse on this forum is generally very good. Perhaps my concern is unfounded. In that case there's no harm done and everything is running smoothly.
 

Darrell Andersen

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Don "the class the stars fell on" Maddox:

"everything is running smoothly"

Delete "smoothly", insert "in it's usual pleasantly wierd manner" and I am right there with you!!

I think that MMP has seen far worse and weathered these things quite nicely, continuing to plod ahead with much more effort than I would in their shoes. I may bitch and moan from time to time, like many others, but overall I think that they are doing a damned fine job. I also imagine that is the feeling of the majority of the members. If memory serves, there was recently a poll question regarding MMPs handling of the hobby and that came out quite positive. I think that the guys from MMP get plenty of "attaboys" both in forums like these and the biggest "attaboy" of all, many thousands of $$ hanging out there in preorder land. We as a group typically appreciate the work done by them and trust them enough to preorder anything they post for a P#.
 

Johnny Canuck

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In my opinion, that would be:

- AoO, ASLRBv2, BVv2 and J6 seem to be the most important ASL related projects. If so, prioritize them, and get them done.
- Provide believable delivery dates for 1 if not 2 products.

Things I'd ask myself are:
- Have I developed a work plan?
- Have I identified the critical paths?
- Is person X working to the plan?
- Who manages the development team?
 

Bryan Holtby

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I think we need to leave MMP alone for a couple of months. As a group, we made it very clear we werent happy about lack of products and they have explained it very clearly, bottleneck, new license agreement etc. No point in beating a dead horse.

Now we have to give them a while to get caught up, and if nothing new comes out for Xmas we can start again....only louder :laugh:
 

mgenberg

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Negativity not only affects the desire of the human beings at any particular company from wanting to participate in a forum, but it also affects those who visit a particular forum. Many folks left the ASLML in its heyday because of the perceived negativity. Additionally, a good question to ask is "what is the affect of significant negative posts on relatively new players?" It can have an affect and reduce their enthusiasm for the game, when we all recognize that attracting new players is important.

Criticism is good and healthy, but no one wants to hear it all the time.
 

paulkenny

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Bryan Holtby said:
I think we need to leave MMP alone for a couple of months. As a group, we made it very clear we werent happy about lack of products and they have explained it very clearly, bottleneck, new license agreement etc. No point in beating a dead horse.

Now we have to give them a while to get caught up, and if nothing new comes out for Xmas we can start again....only louder :laugh:
Nahh I say we all go over and pink belly Perry
 

jimfer

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Thanks

To all people who work at MMP,
I for one am extremely thankful for all you do. The ASL community are like most Americans, we want everything Now and if we do not get our way we complain loudly. I have patience and am willing to wait. You are the reason we still have the best game in the world. I again say thanks.

Jimfer
 

Pitman

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So, Jimfer, at what point is it permissible for one to become impatient? :)
 

Sgt. Przybylo

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Jeez, why say that?

Mark, why in the world would you deem it necessary to address Jimfer's post in that manner? Apparently his patience threshhold is different from other peoples, and he states it in that way. In no way did he imply that that it is NOT ok to be impatient, just that he is willing to wait. I believe that this is exactly sort of thing Don is talking about. You don't have to like MMP, or their pace, or (insert gripe here). But, what you have to do is respect another member's opinion, and in this case, his willingness to wait for MMP.

Just my 2 cents, but let's lighten up here.
 

paulkenny

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Sgt. Przybylo said:
Mark, why in the world would you deem it necessary to address Jimfer's post in that manner? Apparently his patience threshhold is different from other peoples, and he states it in that way. In no way did he imply that that it is NOT ok to be impatient, just that he is willing to wait. I believe that this is exactly sort of thing Don is talking about. You don't have to like MMP, or their pace, or (insert gripe here). But, what you have to do is respect another member's opinion, and in this case, his willingness to wait for MMP.

Just my 2 cents, but let's lighten up here.

oh come on, Marks post was anywhere from the rude posts that Don was talking about. Like any forum there is going to be conflict and difference of opinion. THat tension is what makes the forum of interest. Posts like Mark are an attempt to state a position. That is a far cry from rude posts calling someone a D*$& or worse.
 

Gunner Scott

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All I ask of MMP is next time you guys put something on a P# status, make sure its good to go when it hits its P#. That way you can avoid a whole hell of alot of whining.

Scott

Sgt. Przybylo said:
Mark, why in the world would you deem it necessary to address Jimfer's post in that manner? Apparently his patience threshhold is different from other peoples, and he states it in that way. In no way did he imply that that it is NOT ok to be impatient, just that he is willing to wait. I believe that this is exactly sort of thing Don is talking about. You don't have to like MMP, or their pace, or (insert gripe here). But, what you have to do is respect another member's opinion, and in this case, his willingness to wait for MMP.

Just my 2 cents, but let's lighten up here.
 
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