A little help with "Silence that Gun!" from Paratrooper?

Johnne

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Hello all,

Question from a newbie:

Does anybody happen to know which VASL scenario is 'Silence that Gun' from Paratrooper / Yanks?

I see a number of scenarios on the site, but which one is 'Silence that Gun'?

Which version of VASSAL / VASL do I need to play it?

Thanks!!!

~John, a newbie to VASL
 

dwardzala

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I would strongly recommend that you avoid the pre made scenario set ups. They often do not contain the correct orders of battle and or have other issues. Also, they may not be compatible with the most recent version of VASL or VASSAL.
it’s not hard to set up a scenario in VASL.
 

Jazz

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I would strongly recommend that you avoid the pre made scenario set ups. They often do not contain the correct orders of battle and or have other issues. Also, they may not be compatible with the most recent version of VASL or VASSAL.
it’s not hard to set up a scenario in VASL.
I second that.

You will (should?) take as much time checking as pre-made scenario set up as you would building it from scratch....and building from scratch goes a long way toward becoming intimate with the opposing forces....and you won't need to worry about which version of VASL/VASSAL you need to run it with. I'm betting that the recent revision to VASL/VASSAL invalidates all existing pre-cooked scenario set ups?
 
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Actionjick

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I second that.

You will (should?) take as much time checking as pre-made scenario set up as you would building it from scratch....and building from scratch goes a long way toward becoming intimate with the opposing forces....and you won't need to worry about which version of VASL/VASSAL you need to run it with. I'm betting that the recent revision to VASL/VASSAL invalidates all existing pre-cooked scenario set ups?
Very sound advice. I know next to nothing about VASL and wasn't aware that there were pre-made scenario set ups. Very interesting. I suppose it would save time and being thrust into a situation you didn't manufacture has some real world flavor about it. You arrive at the front and suddenly you are in charge! Not how I would play a lot but does have an appeal to it.
 

von Marwitz

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I would strongly recommend that you avoid the pre made scenario set ups. They often do not contain the correct orders of battle and or have other issues. Also, they may not be compatible with the most recent version of VASL or VASSAL.
it’s not hard to set up a scenario in VASL.
I would strongly recommend you to think a bit before you make such statements.

While pre made scenario setups certainly cannot claim to be free of error, the guys who make them tend to be of the more diligent side. Otherwise, they would not take the time to lay out all the things nicely as they do.
You can pull the stuff yourself, of course, but with regard to errors, you might be able to spot that of others more easily than those of your own. As such, using pre made setups could even be advantageous.
I concede, though, that one might be more forgiving with regard to one's own errors than with that of others.

'Other issues' will be most likely questions of software versions. That said, VASSAL v3.2.x has been around for a long time. This is even true for the latest v3.2.17 before the major recent VASSSAL shift beyond v3.2. With regard to VASL versions, updates were a bit more frequent (roughly twice a year) but mostly minor. You can review the 'build history' to see the detailed changes. The net effect is that pre-made VASL setups could be used without issues for quite a long time. IIRC what you could call major changes in VASL came with the shifts from v5.93 to v6.0.x, from v6.0.x to v6.2.x, from v6.2.x to v6.4.x and now from v6.5x to v6.6. Some of these major shifts were related to shifts in VASSAL that required adaptations of VASL like we now see with VASSAL post v3.2.17.

In this context, boards are less the issue than counters. And in the last few versions, boards would be downloaded automatically if not already present anyway. Sometimes counters got new features. This mostly did not mean that counters of 'old' versions did not work any more but that they would not have a certain feature, which you do not necessarily need in a game.

So much for the points critizised. Even if very critical of pre-made setups, they might be a superior base to build on rather than to start from scrap oneself.

By now, it should be custom by those creating pre-made setups to point out the VASL-version with which it was created along with the date. This will allow you at a glance to determine if the scope of changes would be only minor for an update.

In any case, a pre-made setup saves you time with regard to the following:
  • board selection, orientation, Terrain SSR, weather. It is quicker to check these for errors than to do them from scrap.
  • turn track, scenario title, ID. Highly unlikely that changes need to be made here.
  • Setup areas, entry areas (if the pre-made setup features these). Again, quicker to check for errors rather than to do them from scrap.
  • Pulling counters. Yet again quicker to check for errors than to pull from scrap, especially if AFV and Guns are labelled with ID letters and leaders named already.
  • If you can determine that the pre-made setup has been created with an older VASL version and you really want to be on the 'safe side', then you can re-pull new counters. You would place the new counters atop the old ones and after that delete the old ones. This will save you time once more, because aligning counters outside the board is tedious business and by the aforementioned method, you can take advantage of this work having already been done for the old counters.
Bottom line:
If using a pre-made setup - even if checking for mistakes and updating - you will be quicker in the vast majority of cases compared to doing everything from scrap.


von Marwitz
 

dwardzala

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I would strongly recommend you to think a bit before you make such statements.

While pre made scenario setups certainly cannot claim to be free of error, the guys who make them tend to be of the more diligent side. Otherwise, they would not take the time to lay out all the things nicely as they do.
You can pull the stuff yourself, of course, but with regard to errors, you might be able to spot that of others more easily than those of your own. As such, using pre made setups could even be advantageous.
I concede, though, that one might be more forgiving with regard to one's own errors than with that of others.

'Other issues' will be most likely questions of software versions. That said, VASSAL v3.2.x has been around for a long time. This is even true for the latest v3.2.17 before the major recent VASSSAL shift beyond v3.2. With regard to VASL versions, updates were a bit more frequent (roughly twice a year) but mostly minor. You can review the 'build history' to see the detailed changes. The net effect is that pre-made VASL setups could be used without issues for quite a long time. IIRC what you could call major changes in VASL came with the shifts from v5.93 to v6.0.x, from v6.0.x to v6.2.x, from v6.2.x to v6.4.x and now from v6.5x to v6.6. Some of these major shifts were related to shifts in VASSAL that required adaptations of VASL like we now see with VASSAL post v3.2.17.

In this context, boards are less the issue than counters. And in the last few versions, boards would be downloaded automatically if not already present anyway. Sometimes counters got new features. This mostly did not mean that counters of 'old' versions did not work any more but that they would not have a certain feature, which you do not necessarily need in a game.

So much for the points critizised. Even if very critical of pre-made setups, they might be a superior base to build on rather than to start from scrap oneself.

By now, it should be custom by those creating pre-made setups to point out the VASL-version with which it was created along with the date. This will allow you at a glance to determine if the scope of changes would be only minor for an update.

In any case, a pre-made setup saves you time with regard to the following:
  • board selection, orientation, Terrain SSR, weather. It is quicker to check these for errors than to do them from scrap.
  • turn track, scenario title, ID. Highly unlikely that changes need to be made here.
  • Setup areas, entry areas (if the pre-made setup features these). Again, quicker to check for errors rather than to do them from scrap.
  • Pulling counters. Yet again quicker to check for errors than to pull from scrap, especially if AFV and Guns are labelled with ID letters and leaders named already.
  • If you can determine that the pre-made setup has been created with an older VASL version and you really want to be on the 'safe side', then you can re-pull new counters. You would place the new counters atop the old ones and after that delete the old ones. This will save you time once more, because aligning counters outside the board is tedious business and by the aforementioned method, you can take advantage of this work having already been done for the old counters.
Bottom line:
If using a pre-made setup - even if checking for mistakes and updating - you will be quicker in the vast majority of cases compared to doing everything from scrap.


von Marwitz
I just don’t see that much time spent setting up a scenario in VASL, especially if you know the hot keys for the counters. YMMV but I am more comfortable pulling my counters myself and learning my OB by doing so. And, as mentioned in the question I responded to, there is confusion on which file you should use. Just really seems easier to do it myself.
 

von Marwitz

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Which site has prepared VASL scenarios?
Vasl.info has:


However, admittedly, many of the scenario setups there are obsolete going back as far as VASL v5.0
The trouble with the newer scenarios setups is that on the website the VASL version with which they have been created that used to be part of the filename when submitted, have been removed at least for around 150 of them. This makes them difficult to evaluate with regard to actuality.

The heart of the matter is that VASL currently lacks a script that is able to automatically update a given prepared setup to the current version (i.e. by re-pulling all counters while maintaining names & labels). I am convinced that to program this would not be a major challenge compared to other things the code gnomes tackle for VASL. Would we have such a function, then that place could develop into a great database. Updating all the setups manually with a new VASL version is simply way too much work. To my knowledge, the VASL folks are aware of this but it ranks not high on their list of priority. Alas. I think it would be a very valuable and useful new feature for VASL.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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You will (should?) take as much time checking as pre-made scenario set up as you would building it from scratch....
No, unless you do it quick and dirty.

and building from scratch goes a long way toward becoming intimate with the opposing forces....
Yes.

and you won't need to worry about which version of VASL/VASSAL you need to run it with.
Correct.

I'm betting that the recent revision to VASL/VASSAL invalidates all existing pre-cooked scenario set ups?
Yes and no. But more yes than no, alas.
The master code gnome on this:

Games created in VASL6.5.0 or 6.5.1 will work in VASL6.6.0. Games created in earlier versions of VASL won't work in VASL6.6.0.
Games created in VASL6.6.0 will work in VASL6.5.0 and 6.5.1 but not in earlier versions of VASL.
von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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Just to visualize what we are talking about:

This is a pre-made setup how I do them:

14836

Features:
  1. Picture (which might be a cause of trouble if the web-source is no longer available).
  2. VC & SSR (which will not show on those pre-made setups at vasl.info for copyright reasons).
  3. Special Rules needed for this scenario
  4. ROAR Rating at the time of the creation of the VASL file. Beneath VASL version with which this file was created and creation date.
  5. VP and CVP counters (if required by scenario), similar for PF, THH Tallies
  6. Sample AFV used in scenario. Before play, these are marked with CTRL-I to display Ammo and other backside information.
  7. Terrain alterations already done (snow, orchards out of season etc.)
  8. Manual terrain enhancements by draggable overlays (a special SSR Paved Road in this case)
  9. Setup and Entry Areas
  10. Setup instructions, SAN/ELR
Of such a VASL file, much can be used as a template. For example, the position of the units offboard can be reused for any scenario with a comparable playing area with only minor adaptations. VC/SSR can be copied/pasted from a PDF into the HTML template, etc.

There is also a tool created by Pacman Ghost that can ease some of the stuff I do manually for my setups described in this thread, which will soon (or does already) integrate ROAR and/or ASL Scenario Archive information. It can also automatically add vehicle notes for vehicles selected. Setups created with this tool look like this:

14837


Compared to the above pre-made setups, this is what you normally see on VASL:

14838

You've got a turn track, rough entry areas and hardly any extra information. Sure - such a setup file can be quickly created. But it is of an entirely different quality than the other two examples above.


As stated before, what is lacking in VASL is a script that updates pre-made setups to the current version. This would give people all the time they wanted to review scenario OBs and what not paired with a more informative and nicer apparel of the files.

But even without, what can be used by pre-made setups (if not entirely outdated) as a template or checking them for errors will be faster that starting from scrap - except maybe if you don't want more than a 'quick and dirty' version.

von Marwitz
 
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hongkongwargamer

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I just don’t see that much time spent setting up a scenario in VASL, especially if you know the hot keys for the counters. YMMV but I am more comfortable pulling my counters myself and learning my OB by doing so. And, as mentioned in the question I responded to, there is confusion on which file you should use. Just really seems easier to do it myself.
Yes. I have always set everything up myself so I get a good look at the terrain, the VC, my own OB as well as my opponent’s OB.
 

Actionjick

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Just to visualize what we are talking about:

This is a pre-made setup how I do them:

View attachment 14836

Features:

  1. Picture (which might be a cause of trouble if the web-source is no longer available).
  2. VC & SSR (which will not show on those pre-made setups at vasl.info for copyright reasons).
  3. Special Rules needed for this scenario
  4. ROAR Rating at the time of the creation of the VASL file. Beneath VASL version with which this file was created and creation date.
  5. VP and CVP counters (if required by scenario), similar for PF, THH Tallies
  6. Sample AFV used in scenario. Before play, these are marked with CTRL-I to display Ammo and other backside information.
  7. Terrain alterations already done (snow, orchards out of season etc.)
  8. Manual terrain enhancements by draggable overlays (a special SSR Paved Road in this case)
  9. Setup and Entry Areas
  10. Setup instructions, SAN/ELR
Post will be edited and continued later. Dinner calls...


von Marwitz
?
 

Johnne

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Well, I played on VASL for the first time yesterday and it was really neat! I hope to be on the ladder soon!

However, here is what my original question was:

I was trying to find "Silence that Gun" from Paratrooper. Here is what I found, in the "Old" Categort.

Para
ASL011.v53
ASL012.v53
ASL013.v53
ASL014.v53
ASL015.v53
ASL016.v53
ASL017.v53
ASL018.v53


Which of these is 'Silence that gun!'

When I try to open ASL 11 after downloading, here is the message I get.

"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action."

Here is what I'm using: VASSAL 3.2.17. VASL 6.5.1 (at suggestion of a current opponent).

Thoughts?

~John
 

Michael R

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I was trying to find "Silence that Gun" from Paratrooper. Here is what I found, in the "Old" Categort.

Para
ASL011.v53
ASL012.v53
ASL013.v53
ASL014.v53
ASL015.v53
ASL016.v53
ASL017.v53
ASL018.v53


Which of these is 'Silence that gun!'

When I try to open ASL 11 after downloading, here is the message I get.

"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action."



~John
It looks like you tried to open the file directly, rather than trying to open it from VASL.
 

dwardzala

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Those appear to be files that are for VASL version 5.3. You probably need to save it to a folder and then open VASL and the open the file within VASL.
 

Michael R

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I tried to load AP014.vasl (wrong file, I know) but received the error below. I renamed it to AP014.vsav and received the same error.

14840
 
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