A heroic leader who suffers wounds as a leader

lightspeed

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Folks,

Played SP52 (The Amazing Tominac) last week.

There is an SSR which reads "The American 9-2 is Heroic (A15.2) but suffers wounds as a leader rather than a hero."

I think this means that, if the 9-2 fails a morale check, he is not broken (as he is a hero), nor is he wounded (unless he rolls a 12 on the MC).

That means the 9-2 is mostly bullet proof (no pun intended...well, maybe).

The only way to wound him is to get a K result (including a 12 on a MC). If he is wounded, then failing a MC eliminates him.

Does that sound correct?

BTW, due to my terrific dice rolls and my opponent's horrible dice rolls, the scenario wasn't at all close. I would be happy to try it again, as it looks like it has some potential.

Thanks in advance.
indy
 

Swiftandsure

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I think that, if wounded, it isn't automatically eliminated as would be a Hero.
 

jrv

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A wounded hero is automatically eliminated if it fails a MC [A15.2]. I believe the SSR is trying to say that if the hero/leader is already wounded and fails a MC, it makes a severity dr [D17.11] instead of being eliminated automatically.

JR
 

Brian W

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A wounded hero is automatically eliminated if it fails a MC [A15.2]. I believe the SSR is trying to say that if the hero/leader is already wounded and fails a MC, it makes a severity dr [D17.11] instead of being eliminated automatically.
Yes; heroes do not get a wound severity dr on their second wound, unlike other wounded SMC. This SSR is saying that wounds occur as if the leader were a heroic leader, but are resolved as if the leader were only a leader.
 
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jrv

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Where is this in the rules?
More correctly, a hero does not take a wound severity dr on his failure of a MC per A15.2. Per a Q&A, a wounded hero that suffers a CR or a casualty MC is also eliminated:

Q&A said:
A7.302 & A15.2 Is a wounded hero that suffers Casualty Reduction wounded again or eliminated? One that suffers a Casualty MC?
A. The hero would be eliminated in either case (a wounded hero that wounds again is eliminated).
[Compil8]
It doesn't say that very well in A15.2, but the Q&A clarifies the matter.

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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More correctly, a hero does not take a wound severity dr on his failure of a MC per A15.2. Per a Q&A, a wounded hero that suffers a CR or a casualty MC is also eliminated:
It doesn't say that very well in A15.2, but the Q&A clarifies the matter.
It does not say it at all in A15.2, IMO. :)
I have some doubts about that Q&A, as IMO, it changes the rules more than clarifies them and the wording in A15.2 did not change between 1st and 2nd edition, afaik.

It would have been easy to add something like this to the rule - to cover this:
"...If a wounded hero fails a MC (or is wounded again) it is eliminated;..."
 

Eagle4ty

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It does not say it at all in A15.2, IMO. :)
I have some doubts about that Q&A, as IMO, it changes the rules more than clarifies them and the wording in A15.2 did not change between 1st and 2nd edition, afaik.

It would have been easy to add something like this to the rule - to cover this:
"...If a wounded hero fails a MC (or is wounded again) it is eliminated;..."
Yup. Always thought that Q&A carried the extrapolation too far and did not say what the rule stated, but have been shot down too many times at tournaments with an opposing view. Note: the Q&A was never brought forward in The General, ASL Annuals or ASL Journals.:rolleyes:
 

Brian W

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Ah yes, the "I'll decide which q&a to play by" attitude is the right attitude. It's all those tournament directors and other players where it gets sticky.
 

lightspeed

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It does not say it at all in A15.2, IMO. :)
I have some doubts about that Q&A, as IMO, it changes the rules more than clarifies them and the wording in A15.2 did not change between 1st and 2nd edition, afaik.

It would have been easy to add something like this to the rule - to cover this:
"...If a wounded hero fails a MC (or is wounded again) it is eliminated;..."
Agreed.

In 17.1, it says "In addition. an unwounded hero is considered wounded instead of broken whenever it fails a MC."

IMHO, it's quite explicit that this does not apply to a wounded hero (and in that case, A15.2 takes over).

Also,

"17.11 SEVERITY: Whenever a SMC is wounded, another dr must be immediately made to determine the severity of the wound. On a dr of 5 or 6, the wound is considered mortal
and is treated as a KIA instead. On a dr of 1-4. the wound is minor. A wounded man who is wounded again must add a +1 drm to his Wound Severity dr. There is no additional
penalty for being wounded more than once."

It's pretty specific about two things, imho: This applies to _any_ SMC and therefore a hero is treated the same as a leader (for wounds),
and the last line (no additional penalty). It makes me think that the Q&A that says a wounded hero who is wounded again automatically dies was an error.

Just my 2 cents.

indy
 

Swiftandsure

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" If a wounded hero fails a MC it is eliminated"
No wound severity dr.
A wounded Hero is treated differently from a non heroic leader on that point.
 

klasmalmstrom

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" If a wounded hero fails a MC it is eliminated"
No wound severity dr.
A wounded Hero is treated differently from a non heroic leader on that point.
Yes, I think we all agree that a wounded Hero is eliminated if he fails a MC. The question is what happens when a wounded Hero becomes wounded again, by e.g., a K/-result or a "2" Sniper attack.

The old Q&A says he dies, but IMO, that is not in the rules and the 2nd Edition text was not updated. Hence, my doubts about the Q&A.
 

Philippe D.

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I agree that the rule not being updated does cast some doubt, but IMHO it's just too much distinction. Unless there's an explicit counter to that Q&A, I'll consider that it simpler to remember it as "doubly wounded heroes die", and not as "doubly wounded heroes die unless it's a non-MC wound, in which case roll the die".
 

lightspeed

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Yes, I think we all agree that a wounded Hero is eliminated if he fails a MC. The question is what happens when a wounded Hero becomes wounded again, by e.g., a K/-result or a "2" Sniper attack.

The old Q&A says he dies, but IMO, that is not in the rules and the 2nd Edition text was not updated. Hence, my doubts about the Q&A.
Agreed completely. My doubts as well. I would add that, as written, I think the rules are quite clear.

indy
 

Eagle4ty

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I tend to agree with Philippe however, after initially being shot down on my take that a 2nd "wound" result would require a Wound Severity dr several times, it is simply easier to remember that all Heros die on a second wound regardless of how inflicted (too bad, so sad, pass the beer nuts-it's a game).:rolleyes::cry::bow:
 
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