75th anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

[Stephen Frum]

And I am thinking of those heroic Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

Any good scenario suggestions/ideas?

 

[Jacometti]

And I am thinking of those heroic Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

Any good scenario suggestions/ideas?

I hear Mila 18 is really good and totally uncontroversial.

 

[lluis61]

T my knowledge, there are only three scenarios about the uprising: MM03 The Jews Have Guns!, in March Madness Irregular Forces Pack; Mila 18, in Beyond Valor 3rd ed.; and A62 Paole Zion, in ASL Annual '93b.

 

[aiabx]

That's a fight I think I would want to play solo. I'd just feel a bit squirmy playing the SS in a Warsaw Ghetto scenario.

 

[Tuomo]

I was all ready to jump in and talk about LFT's Warsaw HASL, in development. Then I realized the 75th anniversary of that one is next year. Sigh.

 

[lluis61]

That's a fight I think I would want to play solo. I'd just feel a bit squirmy playing the SS in a Warsaw Ghetto scenario.

Agreed. Mark Pitcavage has a definite opinion about scenarios of the Ghetto Uprising:
"The second problematic scenario is MM03 (The Jews Have Guns!), the inclusion of which is problematic for entirely different reasons. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 was not in any sense a “traditional” uprising (as was the 1944 Warsaw Uprising a year later). Rather, it was a “symbolic” uprising of Jews who knew that they were going to die at the hands of the Germans but who decided to choose the manner of their death and die with defiance. When the Uprising began, there was about one day of fighting that might be considered as fighting between combatants; by the third day, the Germans were simply going building to building, destroying and burning buildings and bunkers. Though Jewish fighters might issue forth briefly for a rare raid, it was essentially a work of slaughter. The razing of the Warsaw Ghetto, of which the Uprising was a part, was part of the Holocaust and, as such, entirely unsuited for being turned into a scenario for a game. This is a scenario that should not really have been designed."

 

[Robin Reeve]

That's a fight I think I would want to play solo. I'd just feel a bit squirmy playing the SS in a Warsaw Ghetto scenario.

The ideology of the combatants would not be my problem - playing Soviets vs. Nazis would be morally impossible.
The only real question is if the scenario presents a tactically challenging situation and if it corresponds to a real situation.
In a loaded topic like the Jewish Warsaw ghetto uprising, I presume that being clear about those two aspects could be more important than for other situations.

 

[lluis61]

The ideology of the combatants would not be my problem - playing Soviets vs. Nazis would be morally impossible.
The only real question is if the scenario presents a tactically challenging situation and if it corresponds to a real situation.
In a loaded topic like the Jewish Warsaw ghetto uprising, I presume that being clear about those two aspects could be more important than for other situations.

That's the problem. All the uprising was an entirely biased affair. Briefly for the surprise of the uprising by one side, and then a slaughter... For this reason I cited Pitman. Commemorating the Uprising is a right and proper thing to do, but playing into ASL is an unbalanced question in game terms.

 

[Yuri0352]

Agreed. Mark Pitcavage has a definite opinion about scenarios of the Ghetto Uprising:
"The second problematic scenario is MM03 (The Jews Have Guns!), the inclusion of which is problematic for entirely different reasons. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 was not in any sense a “traditional” uprising (as was the 1944 Warsaw Uprising a year later). Rather, it was a “symbolic” uprising of Jews who knew that they were going to die at the hands of the Germans but who decided to choose the manner of their death and die with defiance. When the Uprising began, there was about one day of fighting that might be considered as fighting between combatants; by the third day, the Germans were simply going building to building, destroying and burning buildings and bunkers. Though Jewish fighters might issue forth briefly for a rare raid, it was essentially a work of slaughter. The razing of the Warsaw Ghetto, of which the Uprising was a part, was part of the Holocaust and, as such, entirely unsuited for being turned into a scenario for a game. This is a scenario that should not really have been designed."

I agree completely.
These atrocities and other war crimes should be remembered through reflection and education, and not as fodder for recreational boardgaming. Quite Mind-boggling to think that a group of people actually devoted their time to designing and playtesting a game about these events.

What's next? A Bataan death march scenario pack? Perhaps a Ourador-Sur-Glane or My Lai HASL?

 

[bendizoid]

I kinda like Czenitcha (?) bridgehead. It's in the neighborhood.

 

[aiabx]

I kinda like Czenitcha (?) bridgehead. It's in the neighborhood.

That was the Polish Home Army thing a year later. A very different kettle of fish.

 

[Brian W]

When I was working on a map for Eastern Island, part of the Midway atoll, I reached out to a community of retired service men and women that had served on the island (post ww2), and was torn a new one by people that didn't understand what wargaming was or what I was trying to do. So, even regular scenarios need a bit of delicacy when speaking to non-gamers, let alone a direct portion of the Holocaust, about which I completely agree with Mark. It's not something I would game.

 

[Danno]

T my knowledge, there are only three scenarios about the uprising: MM03 The Jews Have Guns!, in March Madness Irregular Forces Pack; Mila 18, in Beyond Valor 3rd ed.; and A62 Paole Zion, in ASL Annual '93b.

There is also Z9 Flags of Defiance from Rout Report.