3.4 bug -- Belgians join axis after axis invade!!! (+ other bugs)

flyfishtasmania

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We started a 3.4 game. It was my first time playing Axis, and I did something stupid.

1. Allies extend Maginot Line.
2. Germans declare war on France (thinking kill the Maginot line before it is built, and then force the Poles into the crusade later. Unfortunately the crusade option disappears!)
3. Germans launch invasion of low countries. Fight for 2 weeks. Make mistakes and Holland / Belgium are still around!
4. French move into Belgium to defend Brussels.
5. Belgians declare war on French and become Axis!!!!!

I will contact my friend and see what he wants to do. We may start again, or disband the Belgians and continue (they obviously surrendered!!!) But thought you should know!
:surprise:
 

Mark Stevens

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flyfishtasmania said:
We started a 3.4 game. It was my first time playing Axis, and I did something stupid.

1. Allies extend Maginot Line.
2. Germans declare war on France (thinking kill the Maginot line before it is built, and then force the Poles into the crusade later. Unfortunately the crusade option disappears!)
3. Germans launch invasion of low countries. Fight for 2 weeks. Make mistakes and Holland / Belgium are still around!
4. French move into Belgium to defend Brussels.
5. Belgians declare war on French and become Axis!!!!!

I will contact my friend and see what he wants to do. We may start again, or disband the Belgians and continue (they obviously surrendered!!!) But thought you should know!
:surprise:
It's a bit of a chore, but you do need to read the Full Briefing to get the most out of a complicated scenario like this. answering your points in order:

1. The Maginot Line is extended in the 1930s, i.e. long before the outbreak of WWII, so there's no chance of the Germans 'rushing' it during construction.
2. As you found, if the Germans chose to attack the Western Allies from the start, we're assuming that the Poles would take the opportunity to strike from the east in support of their guarantors, France and Britain. It's only if Hitler chooses to ignore the western democracies and move east immediately that Poland can be bullied into joining the Axis.
3. The Germans really should be able to overrun the Low Countries in a turn or two at the most, especially as the 'Invade Low Countries' Theatre Option triggers an Allied shock penalty for the first two weeks. No need for anything very clever, the German corps can simply brush aside the Dutch and Belgians, although you can combine it with sea landings and parachute drops if you want the practice.
4.This is what I don't understand. Once the Germans invade the Low Countries, both Holland and Belgium join the Allies - I'm sure that it says it in a News String - so the French (or other Allies) can move into either country straight after the invasion without declaring war.
5. All that I can think of is that you confused the French moving into Belgium to defend a fellow Ally with an Allied invasion of a neutral Belgium, and pressed the appropriate Theatre Option. This will have disbanded the Allied Belgians and replaced them with Pro-Axis units. The Allied Theatre Option is set to disappear one turn after the Germans invade the Low Countries: you may have pressed it before it vanished or - and this is a possible bug - DID IT REMAIN IN PLACE ON THE ALLIED THEATRE OPTION PANEL FOR SEVERAL TURNS AFTER THE GERMAN INVASION? If so, I need to look at it, but I'll swear that the exercise of the German TO to invade the Low Countries cancels the Allied one.

If you let me know exactly what happened I'll take another look if necessary, but I hope it was more down to inexperience on your
part than a bug in the system. At least you've had an interesting little practice run, although if the Germans can't beat the Dutch and Belgians I wouldn't book your seat in the Kremlin restaurant before you actually arrive there.
 

flyfishtasmania

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Maginot Line etc.

Right now it seems that there is an issue with the option for the allies invading Belgium not disappearing immediately. But I need to get a definitive answer from my opponent. We can send the save games if they would help.

As to the maginot forts appearing at full strength -- the last time I played (and it was 1.8), the maginot forts appear, but not at full strength -- they are missing lots of artillery, machine guns, etc. And while its hard to verify that, it seems, from my limited perspective as the axis, that that is still true -- the maginot line in Belgium is considerably less hardened than the maginot line on the rhine -- a typical fort is 12-5 rather than 15-15. Hence my attempt to kill them before they become totally impenetrable obstacles (I am trying to not involve the italians -- I am going on the assumption that the italians are more of a liability than an asset! Hence I cant attack France through its soft underbelly!) Hopefully the combined weight of the Rumanian, Hungarian, and German armies can crush France :) If not it could be a long an miserable game as the axis!!!! But maybe if I behave the Americans won't join until its too late for them to help!!!!
 

Mantis

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The Italians are weak on the ground, true; but their airforce is quite good (and numerous), and the strategic options that become available with the Italian navy, access to the Med, a second path into France, etc, make the Italians a worthwhile addition to the Axis powers.

Oops! None of the Axis minor allies (Rumania/Hungary/Bulgaria) are allowed in France. The briefing tells you (in the first part of it, iirc) where all nations units' are allowed to operate. IIRC - the Bulgarians can nly operate in the Balkans, while the Rum/Hun units can operate in the Balkans and Russia.
 

RavenStrike

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3.3 bug, may be in 3.4 too

Playing 3.3 found that the German LIII Corp tries to come on board at hex 72,58 ... a super river hex, and consequently never makes it. This may have been caught before or may still be in 3.4. It would be nice to have that extra Corp about now (turn 128).
 

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RavenStrike said:
Playing 3.3 found that the German LIII Corp tries to come on board at hex 72,58 ... a super river hex, and consequently never makes it. This may have been caught before or may still be in 3.4. It would be nice to have that extra Corp about now (turn 128).
I have to disagree :devious: it would not be good at all for him to have that extra corp about now :whist:
 

RavenStrike

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Raver said:
I have to disagree :devious: it would not be good at all for him to have that extra corp about now :whist:
If the Russians recapture Gorki because I didn't get that LIII Corp ....... :angry:
 

Mark Stevens

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Mea culpa and all that: would sticking a bridging/engineer unit on the super river allow the corps to appear? Just a wild thought.
 

RavenStrike

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Mark Stevens said:
Mea culpa and all that: would sticking a bridging/engineer unit on the super river allow the corps to appear? Just a wild thought.
No. I tried that about 20 turns ago, but no luck. I think those boys are just gonna have to sit out this dance. :cry:
 

Siberian HEAT

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Another possible bug.

Danny and I are playing 3.4 and he mentioned that one of his units appeared in the Great Lakes. A litte investigating shows this...

The X shows where it is supposed to enter (hex 4,30). You can see it shows up elsewhere. Also, I guess because it is an illegal hex, the unit disappears the following turn. This may be why it hasn't been noticed? Or is this an isolated case?
 

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Siberian HEAT said:
Another possible bug.

Danny and I are playing 3.4 and he mentioned that one of his units appeared in the Great Lakes. A litte investigating shows this...

The X shows where it is supposed to enter (hex 4,30). You can see it shows up elsewhere. Also, I guess because it is an illegal hex, the unit disappears the following turn. This may be why it hasn't been noticed? Or is this an isolated case?
I just hit this too... even emailed myself a jpg of it, but glad someone else already saw it...
 

Mark Stevens

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Let us assemble a list of bugs here and I'll correct them in one fell swoop.

German LIII Corps appears in the Rhine (or indeed doesn't!)

US/Canadian unit sinks into the Great Lakes

:cry:
 

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I take it that this entire thread is designed to send Mark into cardiac arrest :devil:
 

Siberian HEAT

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Another bug I found was that one of the Swiss mobile units (3rd Cav Brigade) was set on L reserve to start the game...and somehow freed itself from the Swiss mountains to come down into France and participate in battles. I simply sent it to the remote desert of north africa, but still might need some tweaky tweaky.

Why does the middle hex of the Mannerheim Line have no infantry in it?

Hex 85,86 has a spur major river which looks strange.

Hex 67,99 has a spur road which goes to nowhere.

Extra row of blocked hexes near 142,140 (Persia)

Consider opening one hex of the exlusion zone in Persia (near 141,140 as an example) which would allow the Persians to have some supply fed through...with the house rule that no units can cross through the gap otherwise. Nor can the allies simply block the hex from the Iraqi side. This will mean the Iranians and the Reds will undboubtedly fight over this area while the supply lasts. In any event it will make it less likely the Reds will simply starve out the Iranians.
 

Siberian HEAT

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Some other thoughts.

See my other thread on supply point considerations.

Also, it might be worth running sea supply roads all along the coast of France and Spain, so the Allies have considerable latitude in where they invade France when the time comes. As it stands, they have little choice in where they go...and the Axis has to only guard a few points to prevent such an invasion. Forcing them to spread out would give both sides a more realistic set of options. If the roads cross shallow sea hexes, and go to points NEXT to the beaches...it would force the allies to land first and then secure supply points/roads. This would also minimize pushing allied units back out onto supply roads.

I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile to put in a strong allied-fortified port near 0,68 (Azores?) to represent either allied control of the South Atlantic so that Axis units cannot freely travel to western africa. It is hard to imagine German corps being transported freely around the western side of Africa to Senegal... as is possible now. Allied control of the sea cannot be simulated because once the Axis controls Casablanca and vicinity, they have air supremecy over the sea lanes there.

The entry of the Japanese bothers me. I can't recall the conditions for their arrival, but I thought it was a flat chance sometime in the early years. However, it is possible the Japanese can arrive in Madagascar, yet find themselves without supply anywhere in East Africa. I find it hard to believe the Japs would send a major task force on a suicide mission like that. At least at that point of the war. :)
 

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Well, I just figured I would throw this out there. I am fairly sure that this is a player-induced bug but...

Anyway a bit of background. Allies extend Maginot (probably not a factor but anyway..) Axis (myself) decides to go traditional war route.
The turn after I attack Poland, Allies move through the low countries into Germany. There was no news flash for allies TO low countries until my next turn, where low countries go Axis. 2 turns later I still have the TO to attack the low countries.

I am fairly certain that my opponent didnt do the TO to occupy Low countries and just went in and they spontaneously turned Axis after the allied attack but wanted to confirm this
 
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