'2020 points over 100 000 USA vs Ge AAR

[Dan]

Well let me start by saying if I had a choice between the Adats system and the appache. I would take the Apachee anytime. The Adats system has a weakness even know it is world class and it's weakness is even more pronounced in the city. I'm not going to say what it is, I'm going to try to use it against it. Secondly I would say red rover, red rover bring the adats system over I might not have a ton of ARTY but I have realy good spoters, some with 124 Arty Experience wich means I can call down Arty with a .5 time allowance :nofear: I wonder what kind of a combo MLRS and FASCAM can do with a .5 time :joy: Remember you can try to run but you can't hide :ar15: I think regardless of our equipment, there is going to be a lot of casualties on both sides I think, but it is all fun

 

[danstudentvcc]

Well let me ... but it is all fun

Hello and happy weekend.

Things are still quiet on the front. A minor amount of weapons fire on my command chopper otherwise not much to report.

Plotted arty arrives this turn.
All caved in buildings from previous turn was targetted.
All smoked hexes were targetted.
All flags that changed hand were targetted.
Some anticipated potential arrival locations were targetted but
at the rate we are both moving in hind sight it was wasted ammo.
But slowing an opp. with beat up terrain - once we get there location wise - is good cover for defence as well.

Otherwise all quiet.

danstudentvcc

 

[Dan]

Well I had a prety good turn but a lucky one. Looks Like the good old USA drew first blood this turn.
1xLeo2A6EX
1xBoxer IFV antitank vehicle
1xParatrooper sqaud

Hopefully next turn we can add to the total. :salute:

 

[danstudentvcc]

2 US Attack Helos shot down by Ca and Ge forces.

Well I had a prety good turn but a lucky one. Looks Like the good old USA drew first blood this turn.
1xLeo2A6EX
1xBoxer IFV antitank vehicle
1xParatrooper sqaud

Hopefully next turn we can add to the total. :salute:

Hello.
The US Army shoot up a few units last turn. It was inevitable. A Leopard 2 got left sitting out in the open after a mouse mis-click. Then, I failed to account for a road not behaving like a road and charging me 2 plus points per hex: hence an IFV got left out in the open as well.
This turn however the Germans and Canadians advanced some units some more.
Despite having Hellfire hurled at us few shots managed to detonate on the armour.
Many IFV also survived canon fire.
This turn a German Attack Helo shot down an Apache with its Stingers.
3 ADATs also moved forward and missed on their SAM shots.
A remaining ADAT scored a kill on another US attack helo. Both choppers were in the same hex.

This game shows early signs of being a bloody battle.

Danstudentvcc

 

[Dan]

Good day. Well, the battle just got realy bloody. My airmobile troops did a suicide raid deep into German teritory! The US loses so far are very light from the raid. On the other hand I expect to get hit by a mean and nasty counter attack. I expect to lose most of my transport helios but the Germans lost probably around a company or so of the highly regarded and top of the line Leo2a6 as well as probably another 5-7 Leo1a5's and on top of that I nocked out numerous Boxer IFV's. So I think my raid was quite a success. I would also like to thank Gus publicaly for his kind and generous patience I eagerly await his death onslaught on my air troopers. Dan :salute:

 

[danstudentvcc]

Counter--attack.

Good day. Well, the battle just got realy bloody. My airmobile troops did a suicide raid deep into German teritory! The US loses so far are very light from the raid. On the other hand I expect to get hit by a mean and nasty counter attack. I expect to lose most of my transport helios but the Germans lost probably around a company or so of the highly regarded and top of the line Leo2a6 as well as probably another 5-7 Leo1a5's and on top of that I nocked out numerous Boxer IFV's. So I think my raid was quite a success. I would also like to thank Gus publicaly for his kind and generous patience I eagerly await his death onslaught on my air troopers. Dan :salute:

Hello fight fans!

Well the Canadians and Germans counter-attacked the marauding US player's forces.
In this battle between the Freeworld's top Nation Forces we expect to see heavy losses on both opponent's forces.

The turn began with the slaughter of many Apache choppers. First the Leopard 2 and 1 tanks of Ge and Ca shot down Apache's and Blackhawks.
Then the ADATs moved forward and added to the cull of attack-helos.
As the dust settled infantry and Boxer IFV's added to the US losses both ground based and helo.
This was followed by several more successful Apache and Blackhawke kills by the German Attack Helos. Many rear shots were delivered.

In the end the US attack-helos were last seen retreating in an enormous gaggle.
Constantly nipped at by combined air/ground forces of Ge and Ca they retreated further.

The turn closed out with all but 2 or 3 US infantry units being executed where they stood!

A long turn but a bloody turn all around.

danstudentvcc

 

[danstudentvcc]

Well it is turn 13 already. The Ge/Ca counter-attacks must have been quite effective. For this entire turn the sky was clear of Apache.
Now the game began with 20 Apache and 31 Blackhawks in Attack-Helo configuration. I believe I accounted for 10 kills and with an allowance of 3 to 4 retreating helos that would still leave over 35 surviving choppers. Egad!

My Ge Attack-Helos [20] have behaved quite well. Actually I let the ground forces deal with my opp's air force so they largely spent their ammo late in the counter-attack ... a Napoleonic pursuit. My other choppers don't carry weapons on them so I have loaded them with Leopard 1's and Boxer IFV's as well as infantry/ADATs/PzH2000 etc .. These transport choppers of Germany are among the fastest choppers in the game of MBT.

I fully expect my opponent to come rushing back again in a turn or two so I will post the Dead WHQ Alias Company commanders list next.


Dvcc

 

[Dan]

Hi ya all Well, I will first start by saying I protest the use of heliocopters carrying 40 ton MBT's as well as 54.13 ton Pz2000 arty peices including the carring 2Adats systems at the same time wich weiheg 34,000 pounds a piece!!!!! Now I have given this considerable thought and reasearch to back up my protest. The CH-53 which is the helocopter in question has a lift capability of 25,000 pounds or about 12 tons!!!! My reference books are called Fighting Vehicles of the world by Philp Trewitt & Chris Mcnab, My other reference book that I'm looking at is called World Military Avitation by Nikolus Krivinyi. The second thought is I would like a restart of the scenairo!!!!!! Any changes either player would like to make in the editor is fine with me to compensate for what I'm stateing. This whole thing to me is a little bit crazy I don't think there is a helocopter in the world or forseeable future that is capable of carrying a MBT!!!!! Other than that I do not wish to continue this scenairio. :salute: Dan

 

[danstudentvcc]

Dan are you going to complete your game or are you conceding the game to a decisive victory for Danstudentvcc.

I can't see how it is that you have been dealt with in a demeaning manner.

I ahve your emails:
You stated that we were to have a limit of 30 transport choopers:
you bought 31 and all of them came from the attack-helo buy screen:
when I pointed it out you suggested I put HE firing guns manually on my transport choppers but I was to remain with only 20 attack-helos against you.
Your 31 attack-helos [oops! transport helos] were in addition to 20 Apache that you also selected and stated - 20 attack helos should be enough.:
I guess 20 + 31 which equals 51 attack-helos is well bad arithmetic to say the least.

I wrote you about FASCAM stating that I had not bought any and that we should keep it out of the game since it is a game breaker and a sore point for all wargamers: You responded by buying FASCAM and not writing me that you had done so until the game was 'On'.

Should I continue?

Ok I'll skip the remainder and point out that you were insistent that we play for points 'laddr points'. I am ok with ladder points at any time win-loss ratio means nothing to me .. then you became insistent that we only play for a draw .. now you want to regulate the manner in which the game runs and how I should use my units as well.
?

I recommend you post in the forum for Steel Panthers and get other laises opinions. [Consult Double Deuce before hand so that he can ok the contents of any further threading as he would prefer the forum remain civil - I can't disagree. I know from past experience he wants the members to PM each other instead however I think you would gain from the experience. Lastly, don't forget to ask the aliases what they think of your opens to closes ratio is. I can say that mine is 100% 1 to 1 I even told you how to avoid having a mismatch should the game crash on you.]

I will post a decisive win if you unilaterally can the game.

Danstudentvcc
Danstudentvcc

 

[Dan]

Dan are you going to complete your game or are you conceding the game to a decisive victory for Danstudentvcc.

I can't see how it is that you have been dealt with in a demeaning manner.

I ahve your emails:
You stated that we were to have a limit of 30 transport choopers:
you bought 31 and all of them came from the attack-helo buy screen:
when I pointed it out you suggested I put HE firing guns manually on my transport choppers but I was to remain with only 20 attack-helos against you.
Your 31 attack-helos [oops! transport helos] were in addition to 20 Apache that you also selected and stated - 20 attack helos should be enough.:
I guess 20 + 31 which equals 51 attack-helos is well bad arithmetic to say the least.

I wrote you about FASCAM stating that I had not bought any and that we should keep it out of the game since it is a game breaker and a sore point for all wargamers: You responded by buying FASCAM and not writing me that you had done so until the game was 'On'.

Should I continue?

Ok I'll skip the remainder and point out that you were insistent that we play for points 'laddr points'. I am ok with ladder points at any time win-loss ratio means nothing to me .. then you became insistent that we only play for a draw .. now you want to regulate the manner in which the game runs and how I should use my units as well.
?

I recommend you post in the forum for Steel Panthers and get other laises opinions. [Consult Double Deuce before hand so that he can ok the contents of any further threading as he would prefer the forum remain civil - I can't disagree. I know from past experience he wants the members to PM each other instead however I think you would gain from the experience. Lastly, don't forget to ask the aliases what they think of your opens to closes ratio is. I can say that mine is 100% 1 to 1 I even told you how to avoid having a mismatch should the game crash on you.]

I will post a decisive win if you unilaterally can the game.

Danstudentvcc
Danstudentvcc

I'm not saying that I was dealt with in a demeaning manner, but I guess we would have talked about this before the game as we were setting up as I disscussed everything about what was pertinent to the scenairo. To me it just seems very gamey. You are correct that I bought 31 attack choppers, that was a mistake on my part. I did not realize this but looking at the game I did purchase 31. Now I also emailed you that you could purchase attack transport helios from another country if you realy wanted. some of the other countries and the one country. I also mentioned to you might want to try was Russia for the Attack transport helios. and you declined! I did Also mention to you you could Arm your teansport helios if you wished. The other matter was the Adats, Now we were supposed to be playing Germany vs the US but you sked me if you could purchase them, I'm prety sure there from Canada! As far as Fascam goes We certainly had a disscussion on it and I let you know I was purchasing it as I said before I disscused what I thought was all the pertinent deatails with you, we both had the option of buying it. I also wanted to mention that you spent 1,960 points more than we agreed! So I guess you went to the same math class I did. That is more than one attack helio! As far as saving the game again I let you know how many opens and closes I had done and the reason I was doing it, you know my computer crashes in fact it crashed on me while I was talking to you over the phone showing me somthing about the game. and that I was doing my best with it. As far as posting a win I will continue to fight on. I guess I just thought a little common sense was in order. I also I got a little over zealous about the matter So let's just leave this matter behind us and move on. I would like to call this a dead matter and let's just play I will try not to take things so serious the next time. Sincerly Dan

 

[Double Deuce]

I did Also mention to you you could Arm your transport helios if you wished.

Don't tell me you both agreed to mess with units in the editor before you started the battle.... Thats just asking for trouble.

 

[Dan]

Yeah your right it is kind shaky ground. the only thing I did was add about 100 extra infantry to my whole force of over 130,000 points and of course I let Gus know exactly how many guys I was taking.

 

[Dan]

I was really hoping this was going to be one of the funnest battles I had ever played in SPMBT! I have rethought my position about playing and I have decide not to continue with this game for the following reasons. I would first like to say: I like you Gus but I don't like the tactics that were used to try to discredit me and attack me publicly. To me it was a vain attempt to camoflage the real issue of weather or not CH-53's should be allowed to carry heavy AFS but instead I was attacked personally as a sneak and a cheat. The issues in question that I was accused of were discussed and some of them at length with you with the exception of me buying an extra Attack transport helio. I did that by accident and have already
appologized publicly for it. The issue about opens and closes you know fair well why I did it in fact you tried to help me solve the problem with my computer and the program on more than occaision even coming to my home and helping me reinstall SPMBT and SPWW2 and figuring out the problem. I'm not going to repeat and defend myself anymore on these topics. I just wish the issue would have been disscused at the beginning of the scenairio instead of going in the direcion that it has gone. I have also started a thread in the Operational Art of War on what the lift capabiliteis are on a CH-53.

I also appeal to Double Duece on not allowing a major victory as Gus has threatend to do if I back out of this game. Under the circumstances I don't feel this would be fair and I have desroyed more points than him. Sincerly, Dan :salute:

 

[Double Deuce]

OK guys, I'm closing this thread. We'll continue this discussion via email/PM's. I'll be reading through all relevant posts in depth and will be sending an email as soon as time permits. Hopefully by the end of the day tomorrow (Sunday).