12 halftracks? Seriously?

rgrove

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Messages
68
Reaction score
2
Location
Big Spring, Texas
Country
llUnited States
I was clipping away happily at the counters in my newly acquired copy of Yanks when it hit me for the first time - and Ive been involved with ASL for decades.

Why in the hell are there so many of each type of vehicle in the counter mix?

Ive never seen a scenario with more than just a few, normally one or two, of a given vehicle. Even the GINORMOUS scenarios have a half dozen tracks or trucks or whatever.

And you can field a dozen or more of the same exact model Sherman, 3 of the flame thrower variants in the same firefight, enough halftracks to mobilize a battalion!

Any idea why the overkill? Are there really players out there throwing together scenarios on 10 boards with 20+ tanks to the side and such? Or are they just filling counter sheets and emptying our wallets?
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
3,732
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
Partly it's because the US set has so few reasonably common vehicles (ignoring the likes of tank-dozers and mine rollers). That means the US counter sheet would otherwise be significantly smaller than other nations.

Looking at my copy of Yanks v2, I only see a maximum of 6 of each Sherman type with a few with only 5, but 9 different basic models, not including dozers, DD, etc. Yanks v1 came with 6 M2, 12 M3 and 6 M3A1 halftracks and now has 8, 16 and 6 respectively. As for lifting a battalion, a h/t platoon would require a command (M3A1), a 60mm mortar (M2/M3), a lmg (lmg M3), a 57L tower (M2) and 3 squad (M3/M3A1) h/t for a total of 7. A company would have an additional command h/t or two for 22. So the Yanks v2 total (30) could transport a single company and a platoon.

KGP I & II added extra Shermans (a mix of M4, M4A1 and M4A3) and some halftracks and jeeps. They got added as the scenarios/CG needed them. Note that some extra Shermans were added in other modules (RS?) as they were felt to be needed. You can't assume that everybody gets their extra kit from HASL or similar.

Anyway the US produced so many that it seems appropriate that that be reflected in Yanks v2.
 

rgrove

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Messages
68
Reaction score
2
Location
Big Spring, Texas
Country
llUnited States
I suppose but I've not seen a scenario that came close to challenging the counter mix. Maybe in some future campaign historical Module or something.
 

volgaG68

Fighting WWII One DR At A Time
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
3,212
Reaction score
1,549
Location
La Crosse, KS
First name
Chris
Country
llUnited States
I suppose but I've not seen a scenario that came close to challenging the counter mix. Maybe in some future campaign historical Module or something.
Buy some Lone Canuck scenario packs, especially the earlier ones. You will often find yourself wanting to use two counter sets in lieu of using substitutions (he often suggests appropriate subs). There are many of his with 10 or 12 of the exact same variation of the exact same AFV. My major combatants have 2 full counter sets in the Plano for this express purpose.
 

Honza

The Art Of Wargames
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
13,868
Reaction score
2,632
Location
Oxfordshire
First name
Jan
Country
llCzechia
CGs require big amounts of the same vehicle. The BFP scenario Flying Turrets has something like 20x T34/M43. Its the monster scenarios and CGs where the multiple counters come into great use.
 

Philippe D.

Elder Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,393
Location
Bordeaux
Country
llFrance
Generally speaking, the number of copies of each counter in the countermix is vastly superior to what would be needed for the standard scenario - and that's true for vehicles, guns, but also infantry. Each squad gets 26 copies; a scenario with more than 20 squads to a side is already a very large one, and in most (modern) cases, the scenario designer will include a mix of different squad types. I don't have my scenario binders with me to check, but I'd say far fewer than 10% of scenarios use more than 15 copies of a single squad type. More than 4 of the same vehicle (any vehicle, never mind the rare ones), or more than 2 copies of the same gun, is also very rare.

But then, the countermix has to include more, not just for the CGs (HASL modules typically come with additional counters for the troops/vehicles/guns that are likely to be used in large numbers), but also for the occasional large/monster scenario. And scenario designers are nasty people, many of them are attracted to odd actions with multiple copies of that rare vehicle...
 

kcole4001

Stray Cat
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
1,582
Reaction score
455
Location
NorthEast
First name
Kevin
Country
llCanada
Not with vehicles usually, but I have always run out of Russian squads, MTRs, even ATRs playing Red Barricades.
I have used old SL counters (both Russian and US for the MTRs) to fill the gap.
I guess I really should get a second copy of BV sometime.

There is currently a discussion going on about LCPs Hell's Highway where it certainly sounds like they have used a full compliment of German SPW counters, so it can happen.
 
Top