Jude
Senior Member
If using 1/2" counters to simulate a concealed gun in non concealment terrain, is the "gun" considered emplaced or non emplaced for concealment loss purposes?
One of the "Verdict at Nuremberg" scenarios has ?-counters and a SSR that guns can't set up HIP. I only realized afterwards that this would have been the perfect opportunity for a few dummy guns.It is relatively hard to find a good way to use Dummies to simulate a Gun because Guns are usually HIP, and the Dummies stand out as Dummies.
Am I playing this wrong? I thought a non-emplaced gun in concealment terrain losses concealment pretty much like any other infantry.You can use dummies for a gun on a paved orchard-road, but an unemplaced gun will lose concealment on LOS, so dummies will be apparent.
Sorry; my confusion. I was playing a desert scenario with the possibility non-emplaced guns in non-concealment terrain recently, and I mis-remembered. They lose concealment at all ranges. In concealment terrain non-emplaced guns lose concealment like infantry at < 17 hexes. So a dummy in a paved-orchard would not stand out (except that you hardly every put a gun out non-emplaced).Am I playing this wrong? I thought a non-emplaced gun in concealment terrain losses concealment pretty much like any other infantry.
That is in non-concealment terrain. An orchard-road hex is concealment terrain (unless the LOS is traced down the road).You are. Unemplaced gun within 16 and LOS is H ? is lost automatically.
Only if not in concealment terrain. I mis-remembered the rule.You are. Unemplaced gun within 16 and LOS is H ? is lost automatically. Like an AFV.
Sorry, I thought for some reason it was about non-concealment terrain. Probably because of how jrv answered, I just assumed. Shouldn't assume.That is in non-concealment terrain. An orchard-road hex is concealment terrain (unless the LOS is traced down the road).
Even if the LOS is traced down the road it is concealment terrain. FFMO applies if the unit is moving using road movement and the LOS does not leave the road depiction.That is in non-concealment terrain. An orchard-road hex is concealment terrain (unless the LOS is traced down the road).
Dummies may set up on rooftops per B23.82 because rooftops are concealment terrain for setup. Units on rooftops lose concealment normally, and also if a unit has LOS from the same/higher elevation within 16 hexes. On the other hand a gun is not emplaced on a rooftop, and since rooftops are not concealment terrain once play begins, it would be obvious that a 5/8" counter on a rooftop is a dummy when it *didn't* lose concealment on LOS. You can use them to bluff your opponent when he is entering from off-board, but the ruse will be up pretty quickly.Do Dummies setup on rooftops lose Concealment on LOS? Like a Dummy 5/8" mortar. I think yes
Isn't there errata saying that vehicles lose concealment when in a woods-road/orchard-road hex if LOS is traced down the road? I was presuming this is what you were referring to earlier.Even if the LOS is traced down the road it is concealment terrain. FFMO applies if the unit is moving using road movement and the LOS does not leave the road depiction.
Woods-road, but not orchard-road. And it only mentions vehicles.Isn't there errata saying that vehicles lose concealment when in a woods-road/orchard-road hex if LOS is traced down the road? I was presuming this is what you were referring to earlier.