Stack movement (Infantry) and breaking up

Philippe D.

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I finally got Perry's answers to a series of questions I asked a few weeks ago to clarify what happens when units moving as a stack do different things. Here they come.

1. Several units are moving as a stack. Is it correct that one or more
of them can voluntarily leave the stack?
Yes.


If so, it is correct that the
units leaving the stack have to stop moving - they cannot pick up their
movement after the rest of the stack ends its movement?
Wrong.


2. When several units are moving as a stack, can some declare Assault
Movement and not all of them?
Yes. ??

3. Several concealed units are moving as a stack using Assault Movement.
If one of them performs a concealment loss action (say, laying a Smoke
grenade), do all of them lose concealment, or just the one performing
the action?
Not all.


4. Several units are moving as a stack. One is a squad that tries to
place a Smoke grenade; it rolls a 6 and has to end its movement. Do the
other units in the stack also have to stop?
No.


5. Several units are moving as a stack. Can two of them try to place a
Smoke grenade on the same MF expenditure? If so, does the second have to
announce the attempt before the first's dr?
Yes to both.


Does it have to announce
which hex it is targeting before the first's dr?
No.
 

ibncalb

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The second point seems to go against my understanding.

I can drop off a unit from a stack (which may have spent some MF with the stack) and then when I've finished moving the stack I can come back and continue the rest of the movement of the unit which was dropped off?
 

Eagle4ty

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The second point seems to go against my understanding.

I can drop off a unit from a stack (which may have spent some MF with the stack) and then when I've finished moving the stack I can come back and continue the rest of the movement of the unit which was dropped off?
I don't believe that is what he is saying. I believe he is saying a stack can move dropping off 1 or more units at a Location(s) along the path of movement and continue on if they have enough remaining MF to expend.
 

apbills

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If a stack splits up, as in the question, each part can move separately, and you choose in which order those parts move. In the question, a single unit is "left behind" as the others continue to move. Once those others end their MPh, the unit "left behind" can then finish its MPh. How else would you finish the units moving second/third/etc. after the first unit(s) which split up from the stack move? Someone from the split up stack has to move last, and the order you move the split up units is not something dictated by the rules, you just have to finish all of their moves before you can move a unit that was not part of that original stack of moving units.
 

Eagle4ty

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Once a unit in the stack is "left behind" its MPh is over (A4.2) but the rest of the stack may continue moving or performing MF dependent actions (MF allowance dependent of course). Not all units in that stack have to expend MF for the same purpose or at the same rate (e.g. placing smoke grenades, recovering a SW, etc.) but may utilize a Leader Bonus as long as they remain stacked with the Leader during its MPh.
 

Jwil2020

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In the question, a single unit is "left behind" as the others continue to move. Once those others end their MPh, the unit "left behind" can then finish its MPh.
I am probably misunderstanding this (it wouldn't be the first time). But are we saying a stack can be moving along, drop off a unit still having MF left, finish moving the rest of the stack, and then come back to allow the 'dropped off' unit to 'finish' its move?

If so, how does this sqaure up with A4.2: "Once a unit moves, stops, and another unit moves, the original unit may move no further during that MPh." ?
 

ibncalb

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Once a unit in the stack is "left behind" its MPh is over (A4.2) but the rest of the stack may continue moving or performing MF dependent actions (MF allowance dependent of course). Not all units in that stack have to expend MF for the same purpose or at the same rate (e.g. placing smoke grenades, recovering a SW, etc.) but may utilize a Leader Bonus as long as they remain stacked with the Leader during its MPh.
Thats what I know. However the 2nd point was worded oddly.
 

Jwil2020

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Once a unit in the stack is "left behind" its MPh is over (A4.2) but the rest of the stack may continue moving or performing MF dependent actions (MF allowance dependent of course). Not all units in that stack have to expend MF for the same purpose or at the same rate (e.g. placing smoke grenades, recovering a SW, etc.) but may utilize a Leader Bonus as long as they remain stacked with the Leader during its MPh.
Yes. This how I understand the implication of 4.2 as well.
 

Philippe D.

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I am probably misunderstanding this (it wouldn't be the first time). But are we saying a stack can be moving along, drop off a unit still having MF left, finish moving the rest of the stack, and then come back to allow the 'dropped off' unit to 'finish' its move?
This is what I understand from Perry's answer. I was expecting a different answer, to be honest, but Perry's answer says exactly that - the interpretation that they cannot resume moving is "wrong".

(Actually I thought I was posting this in the PerrySez thread. Since this generated some discussion, I'll repost there, seems better than moving the thread and killing the discussion)
 

DVexile

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A4.2 says:

"Otherwise, units may choose to move together as a stack at their own risk and may break up that stack during the MPh to continue to move separately but all members of that moving stack must end their MPh before another unit not in that stack may move."

That sure seems to jive with Perry's answer, they may continue to go their separate ways but you've got to move all of them to completion before moving onto other units outside the original stack.

I thought there was a Perry Sez on this and that I've seen this other places as well on the SK side.

EDIT: Some of the confusion may come from the fact that usually you only move in a stack to get a leader bonus, and of course if a squad gets left behind at MF 4 or 5 then it can't move independently because it doesn't have a leader anymore. But the rules says you could move a stack 2 MF and then have the stack break apart and go its separate ways as long as you finish moving all those units before moving other units that didn't start in the stack.
 

Philippe D.

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EDIT: Some of the confusion may come from the fact that usually you only move in a stack to get a leader bonus, and of course if a squad gets left behind at MF 4 or 5 then it can't move independently because it doesn't have a leader anymore. But the rules says you could move a stack 2 MF and then have the stack break apart and go its separate ways as long as you finish moving all those units before moving other units that didn't start in the stack.
Agreed on this. There are a few situations where you might want to already be in the hex before the opponent is likely to fire and leave residual FP, or before another unit places Smoke (which would increase MF cost).

One case I had in mind: a squad and leader with DC, concealed, Assault Move adjacent to an enemy stack, and the squad places Smoke so the leader can attempt to place the DC with protection from the smoke. Depending on MF cost, the leader might not have enough MF to Assault Move and then place the DC in a smoke-filled hex.
 

apbills

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Once a unit in the stack is "left behind" its MPh is over (A4.2) but the rest of the stack may continue moving or performing MF dependent actions (MF allowance dependent of course). Not all units in that stack have to expend MF for the same purpose or at the same rate (e.g. placing smoke grenades, recovering a SW, etc.) but may utilize a Leader Bonus as long as they remain stacked with the Leader during its MPh.
As DVexile states, per A4.2 each unit in a stack can move separately, and each can finish its MPh in what ever order you want. I used the term "left behind", however, all that connotates is that that unit was chosen to move after other units in the original stack finish their MPh. It can still move, it just needs to finish its MPh before other units NOT in the original stack begin their movement.

"Other units may choose to move together as a stack at their own risk and may break up the stack during the MPh to continue to move separately but all members of that moving stack must end their MPh before another unit not in that stack may move."
 
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DVexile

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One case I had in mind: a squad and leader with DC, concealed, Assault Move adjacent to an enemy stack, and the squad places Smoke so the leader can attempt to place the DC with protection from the smoke. Depending on MF cost, the leader might not have enough MF to Assault Move and then place the DC in a smoke-filled hex.
To be specific I think you are saying:
  • Squad and leader Assault Move as a stack, accept any defensive fire
  • Declare the stack is splitting, Squad will finish its remaining MF first followed by the Leader finishing its remaining MF
  • Squad uses MF to place smoke, Leader doesn't have to match their MF because the stack is split, Squad ends its movement
  • Leader now uses its remaining MF to place DC (hopefully under the cover of smoke) to complete the rest of its movement
Did I get that right?

I'm very new to ASL so I hadn't ever considered something like that - splitting the stack without them actually then moving into different hexes. I did originally on first reading the SK rulebook (which is nearly identical phrasing to what I quoted earlier from A4.2) take it as meaning that you could split the stack mid-movement and have the units go their separate ways. Clearly it seems like a lot of folks who've played and read rules far more than me had a different reading of the same rule!
 

Philippe D.

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To be specific I think you are saying:
  • Squad and leader Assault Move as a stack, accept any defensive fire
  • Declare the stack is splitting, Squad will finish its remaining MF first followed by the Leader finishing its remaining MF
  • Squad uses MF to place smoke, Leader doesn't have to match their MF because the stack is split, Squad ends its movement
  • Leader now uses its remaining MF to place DC (hopefully under the cover of smoke) to complete the rest of its movement
Did I get that right?
That's it exactly.

For this to be legal, the squad cannot use more than 3MF (4MF -1 to allow Assault Move), so cannot place Smoke in an adjacent hex unless the movement was 1MF. So, assuming 2MF hexes, moving the squad first, then the leader (not using stack movement at all), the leader's total movement would be 5MF, compatible with doing the first hex as Assault Movement. But add an additional MF (say, a Wall between two Buildings) and, if moving one then the other, the leader couldn't use AM.
 

Larry

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DeVexile has it right.

A stack of three squads and a leader start moving. The move two MF. Squad A throws a grenade for two, Squads B, C, and the leader pause breaking the stack. The grenade throws some. Squad A can late Cx for 5 or stop where he is. The units that broke from Squad A can now continue moving ... into the smoke for 4. Squad B throws smoke into an adjacent location in a stack with leader for 6. Squad C can now move but must late Cx to move one location for one MF.

Armored assault ... the infantry breaks off after two hexes and into a building for four. The vehicle can now move two more hexes, the max distance the squad could have gotten to at the point of breaking the stack.
 

Doug Leslie

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DeVexile has it right.

A stack of three squads and a leader start moving. The move two MF. Squad A throws a grenade for two, Squads B, C, and the leader pause breaking the stack. The grenade throws some. Squad A can late Cx for 5 or stop where he is. The units that broke from Squad A can now continue moving ... into the smoke for 4. Squad B throws smoke into an adjacent location in a stack with leader for 6. Squad C can now move but must late Cx to move one location for one MF.

Armored assault ... the infantry breaks off after two hexes and into a building for four. The vehicle can now move two more hexes, the max distance the squad could have gotten to at the point of breaking the stack.
I don't think that squad C can use late CX in the situation that you describe.

4.12 LEADER BONUS: Any Good Order MMC which begins the MPh/APh and ends its MPh/APh stacked with a leader of the same nationality in the same Location, at the same level (2.8), and with the same wire/entrenchment/panji/paddy status is eligible for a two MF bonus during that MPh/APh, provided it expends all its MF while moving in a combined stack with that leader, and does not expend any of its MF to mount, ride, or dismount any form of conveyance.

I interpret this to mean that Squad C can only use late CX if the leader accompanies it (which is possibly what you meant to say).
 

Stewart

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Once a unit in the stack is "left behind" its MPh is over (A4.2) but the rest of the stack may continue moving or performing MF dependent actions (MF allowance dependent of course). Not all units in that stack have to expend MF for the same purpose or at the same rate (e.g. placing smoke grenades, recovering a SW, etc.) but may utilize a Leader Bonus as long as they remain stacked with the Leader during its MPh.
This is not accurate.
4.2
Otherwise, units
may choose to move together as a stack at their own risk and may break up
the stack during the MPh to continue to move separately but all members of
that moving stack must end their MPh before another unit not in that stack
may move.
 
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