Home Rule to regulate skulking

turlusiflu

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I don't know if it's been discussed somewhere. I have thought of a rule that could minimize the "gamey" of skulking. It consists of, whenever a unit leaves a location in his MPh, allowing to enemy units to fire to this abandoned location, leaving residual FP there. This residual FP counter shall not be removed until the end of the APh, acting in this location similar to a FFE. So, if a unit goes out of LOS in its MPh a comes back in its APh, it would be attacked by this Residual FP. The main point would be to distinguish these Residual FP "skulking" counters from the regular ones. Or merely allow all Residual FP counters to remain until the end of the APh.
 

von Marwitz

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Dunno. I do not think that Skulking is a gamey tactic. It is rather a game mechanic to represent the very historical behavior of holding a position while minimizing one's exposure to enemy fire IMHO.

On top of that, it is a core technique since decades and you can bet that it was used during the playtesting of just about any scenario in creation for the last 20 years (or even more).

Eliminating Skulking by house rule as a technique might thus have unwanted consequences with regard to play balance.

That said, of course, anything is ok if players mutually agree to adjustments of the rules.

von Marwitz
 

JoeArthur

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Sold some ASL stuff to a bloke on eBay and was trying to encourage him to go to a tourny.

He just played with one other person though - because their house rule was no skulking. He stated that no infantry took a building and then ran out the back to avoid enemy fire and then ran back in................
 

Robin Reeve

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Skulking was referenced in an article at the time of Cross of Iron.
Nobody at Avalon Hill attempted to change the rules to avoid it.
ASL was written in full knowledge of the possibility of skulking : nothing was done against it.
It is part of the system.

How long does a situation where a defender can practice skulking last?
Most of the time, a competent attacker will maneuver to get around the defender's positions and to make skulking impossible or complicated at least.
I think that most grudges against skulking come from the erroneous idea that ASL is more a slugfest than a game of movement.
So wanting to prevent skulking is actually going against the dynamics of the system.
I think that it is better to apply the tactical motto : "analyse, adapt, overcome", rather than remove the obstacle.
 

gorkowskij

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Skulking: Its sole consequence is to make play longer and more tedious as the attacker waits patiently for the defender to do the obligatory shuffle that we all know is coming, but is acceptable because play testers used it too and therefore it’s “built in” to the scenario.

All of that said, skulking is nothing more than a consequence of the turn structure that was later rationalized as “modelling” a defender’s dynamic use of terrain. That’s a stretch, but so is slapping a hex grid across the world’s surface.

Anyway, the real problem is THE ADVANCE PHASE itself. If we remove the advance phase from the sequence of play and just allow GO infantry – who move only one hex – to enter an enemy hex during movement then we eliminate skulking (and other issues) while also making the game play faster with more historicity.

Why the added historicity? Because the advance phase violates a fundamental maxim of military operations – movement draws fire. That does not hold, and is in fact impossible, during the advance phase; a defender can move in the open without suffering consequences.

From the original Squad Leader design notes, you may recall that the advance phase was created for the express purpose of simulating the cautious approach of attackers during a close assault. Therefore, when ASL added “assault movement” and broke the old “-2 for moving in open” modifier into FFNAM and FFMO it mitigated the need for an advance phase altogether. One can now use ASL rules to simulate a cautious advance during the movement phase and therefore there is no further need for a phase designed for that purpose.

Yes, of course, dropping a phase would have a huge impact on all existing scenarios. But after decades of play it’s no surprise that we have found flaws in the system. I can certainly live with those flaws, but I could also live with “ASL II” that delivered various improvements such as dropping the advance phase, making all counters 5/8, removing crews, etc. We all know there would be no shortage of new scenarios for any and all interpretations of SL.
 

Mister T

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It consists of, whenever a unit leaves a location in his MPh, allowing to enemy units to fire to this abandoned location, leaving residual FP there. This residual FP counter shall not be removed until the end of the APh, acting in this location similar to a FFE. So, if a unit goes out of LOS in its MPh a comes back in its APh, it would be attacked by this Residual FP.
They laid down a lot of resid, but in the end it did not work so well.

 

Robin Reeve

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I can certainly live with those flaws, but I could also live with “ASL II” that delivered various improvements such as dropping the advance phase, making all counters 5/8, removing crews, etc. We all know there would be no shortage of new scenarios for any and all interpretations of SL.
But what you call flaws aren't such.
An "ASL II" would have about zero success, as other rip offs of the system were failures.
And most ASL players have no problems with skulking and the APh.
 

Martin Mayers

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Sold some ASL stuff to a bloke on eBay and was trying to encourage him to go to a tourny.

He just played with one other person though - because their house rule was no skulking. He stated that no infantry took a building and then ran out the back to avoid enemy fire and then ran back in................
I hope you educated him by telling him that's not what's actually happening and that one building, presented pictorially, isn't actually representative of one 28yard long by 22yard wide building ?
 

Jazz

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I don't know if it's been discussed somewhere. I have thought of a rule that could minimize the "gamey" of skulking. It consists of, whenever a unit leaves a location in his MPh, allowing to enemy units to fire to this abandoned location, leaving residual FP there. This residual FP counter shall not be removed until the end of the APh, acting in this location similar to a FFE. So, if a unit goes out of LOS in its MPh a comes back in its APh, it would be attacked by this Residual FP. The main point would be to distinguish these Residual FP "skulking" counters from the regular ones. Or merely allow all Residual FP counters to remain until the end of the APh.
Not if I'm playing.
 

Actionjick

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In the real world if I knew I was liable to be shot at be assured I would be skulking my ass off.

Its been part of ASL for way too long to be messing with it or the Advance Phase.

House rules are fine. We never used them as all our games were played with tournaments in mind. You don't want to get used to using a house rule and find yourself at an event and suddenly realize that you have predicated some action on your rule and not what the ASLRB actually says.

Some of these ideas sound interesting but it's not worth flushing thirty five plus years down the tubes. If you want to try these ideas out in a larger setting host an event using them and see how they are received by the attendees.

Btw most submariners find skulking perfectly acceptable. Although wwwbitd sub sailors and their method of warfare were not considered too different from pirates.
 
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