The importance of Third Party Publishers and their impact upon the game.

Actionjick

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How would you know?

We played DYO almost exclusively when ASL first came out. We didn't post AARs or even talk to anyone else, really.
Well I did say the players we knew πŸ˜‰

Valid point about AARs. Very hard to do in cuneiform on clay tablets!!πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰πŸ€£πŸ€£πŸ€£πŸ€£

Not that I am implying you're old or any such nonsense. 😘😘
 

Actionjick

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How would you know?

We played DYO almost exclusively when ASL first came out. We didn't post AARs or even talk to anyone else, really.
Communication was hit or miss between geographically isolated groups back then. If a player didn't attend events it was very difficult, outside of The General, to know what was happening in the SL and ASL world. There were at the most three of us at any one time in Kent. That was before meeting Fish. After that the SL world greatly expanded for me.
 

Actionjick

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"Historical accuracy" is baked into the system, enshrined in the the unit values.

Another way of looking at this is that TPP killed off the DYO system.

I think down deep ASL appeals more just as much to people who enjoy buying stuff as opposed to people who enjoy playing it.

It would be interesting to know how many scenarios the best (defined as most successful in tournaments) players own (i.e. how much do they spend on buying new products) and if there is any correlation between spending money on new products, and being a good player.
Will continue thoughts on this line in the Shanghaid thread this evening. Don't want to hijack this one.
 

Evan Sherry

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Third Party publishers are the precise reason ASL still exists at all. We must remember that MMP was a "Third Party" publisher that started working with Avalon Hill in its final years. Without them, ASL would have died years ago.
When Avalon Hill closed its doors and was acquired by Hasbro, MMP was the entity in the best position to get the license and to save the game since it had knowledge, capability and financial backing to do so. I remember being part of a sort of discussion with an associate of MMP's who was meeting informally with a few of us the other "Third Party" publishers at ASLOK just before MMP closed the deal with Hasbro. At that time, we other publishers were being polled as to our willingness to cooperate/support and acknowledge the idea of MMP becoming the steward of the game. Myself and the other publishers at ASLOK that year were enthusiastic at the time and made it clear that we would support the idea. Speaking for the Tampa ASL Group, we are still supportive of MMP and applaud them for their efforts to preserve and expand the game we all love.
 
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Actionjick

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Third Party publishers are the precise reason ASL still exists at all. We must remember that MMP was a "Third Party" publisher that started working with Avalon Hill in its final years. Without them, ASL would have died years ago.
When Avalon Hill closed its doors and was acquired by Hasbro, MMP was the entity in the best position to get the license and to save the game since it had knowledge, capability and financial backing to do so. I remember being part of a sort of informal discussion with an associate MMP's who was meeting informally with a few of us the other "Third Party" publishers at ASLOK just before MMP closed the deal with Hasbro. At that time, we other publishers were being polled as to our willingness to cooperate/support and acknowledge the idea of MMP becoming the steward of the game. Myself and the other publishers at ASLOK that year were enthusiastic at the time and made it clear that we would support the idea. Speaking for the Tampa ASL Group, we are still supportive of MMP and applaud them for their efforts to preserve and expand the game we all love.
Yes I remember that meeting. Well I at least remember that there was a meeting.

Anything that helps the hobby is welcome in my book. My comments had to do with early TPPs. From the comments on this forum it seems the current TPPs offer quality products. Keep up the good work. πŸ€—
 

Futbol

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My comment on the importance of TPP is this. Years ago during the dark ages of ASL I was stationed in Germany and a small published rag from my home state -The Rout Report, kept me in the game. I waited so patiently then for each issue to come all the way from Michigan. Then there was Backblast and a few others that I faithfully waited for as well. I found a hobby shop in Darmstadt and thus was able to buy core modules and continue playing. I also later had the pleasure of gaming with the DAGGER guys when I discharged. Those old TPP kept the hobby alive...for me anyway and I am grateful. Never underestimate the importance of any TPP no matter how small. They all pump blood into the hobby.
 

fenyan

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To thrive any game needs new blood--new players as well as published material such as expansions or scenarios. Seen too many good games die due to lack of support. ASL owes a lot to its third party producers (the majority of whom produce good stuff), which is a testament to the quality of the game and its players.
 

Actionjick

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My comment on the importance of TPP is this. Years ago during the dark ages of ASL I was stationed in Germany and a small published rag from my home state -The Rout Report, kept me in the game. I waited so patiently then for each issue to come all the way from Michigan. Then there was Backblast and a few others that I faithfully waited for as well. I found a hobby shop in Darmstadt and thus was able to buy core modules and continue playing. I also later had the pleasure of gaming with the DAGGER guys when I discharged. Those old TPP kept the hobby alive...for me anyway and I am grateful. Never underestimate the importance of any TPP no matter how small. They all pump blood into the hobby.
Loved Rout Report. I also eagerly awaited it's arrival. Great stuff!πŸ₯°
 

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Loved Rout Report. I also eagerly awaited it's arrival. Great stuff!πŸ₯°
It was because of the demise of both the Rout Report and also On All Fronts that directly led to the publication of Dispatches from the Bunker. Our very early issues really show their age and amateurish look which got much better after several years of doing it.

Since we are in our 24th year of publishing (including over 50 issues, tons of articles on every aspect of ASL, 160 scenarios and 2 HASLs) we must be doing something right, Vic.
 

Actionjick

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It was because of the demise of both the Rout Report and also On All Fronts that directly led to the publication of Dispatches from the Bunker. Our very early issues really show their age and amateurish look which got much better after several years of doing it.

Since we are in our 24th year of publishing (including over 50 issues, tons of articles on every aspect of ASL, 160 scenarios and 2 HASLs) we must be doing something right, Vic.
Well done to all of you! Beats the heck out of the embarrassing two issue run of In Contact!πŸ€—

Did Terry do anything ASL related after OAF?
 

FourDeuceMF

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I believe KE stood for Kinetic Energy by Mike Reed and others. Rob Wolkey (and maybe Curt Schilling) did a few issues of Fire For Effect.
That is correct...though Mark Neukom should always get top billing for Kinetic Energy Productions (which includes Time on Target) - even my early March Madness packs (97-98-99). ;-)

Mark also did the artwork/layout for the ASLUG scenarios, for Fort.
 

FourDeuceMF

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I would also posit that one particular TPP originally had a positive effect on the game, however now is likely having an overall negative one...but that's a topic for another arena.

"Motivation" matters, when it comes to TPPs. ;-)
 

Eagle4ty

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I would also posit that one particular TPP originally had a positive effect on the game, however now is likely having an overall negative one...but that's a topic for another arena.

"Motivation" matters, when it comes to TPPs. ;-)
It is interesting that certain TPP's essentially focus on a particular aspect of the hobby/game. If I can read between the lines of your post I believe the TPP you referenced was primarily focused upon the production of ASL related material (e.g. scenarios, maps, counters, etc.) and the ability to get them out to a ravenous hobby assemblage. In the 90's this was a positive influence within the game as they offered a ready outlet to designers to get their products into production and their material distributed out to a wider audience. However, the onus of accuracy of design or testing of balance was upon the initial designer and little was done once a product had been presented to them for production. As outside sources dwindled for whatever reasons the ultimate focus has seemingly remained the same, and this to the detriment of the company's current standing within the community for a variety of reasons (my opinion only of course). As you have aptly and succinctly said, "Motivation matters", and it became fairly clear what the primary motivation of that TPP was/is.
 

Vic Provost

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Well done to all of you! Beats the heck out of the embarrassing two issue run of In Contact!πŸ€—

Did Terry do anything ASL related after OAF?
Not that I know of, I have not talked to Terry in almost 30 years.

On All Fronts certainly had its warts but did have occasionally quite good scenarios and gave us all something to read/play while waiting on Avalon Hill to get the next ASL Module out.

I give Terry a thumbs up for being one of the first TPPs and helping getting me fully involved in ASL so I was ready to publish when the time was right. I'm glad I did and continue to this very day, look for Dispatch #52 later in September, Vic.
 

Actionjick

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Not

Not that I know of, I have not talked to Terry in almost 30 years.

On All Fronts certainly had its warts but did have occasionally quite good scenarios and gave us all something to read/play while waiting on Avalon Hill to get the next ASL Module out.

I give Terry a thumbs up for being one of the first TPPs and helping getting me fully involved in ASL so I was ready to publish when the time was right. I'm glad I did and continue to this very day, look for Dispatch #52 later in September, Vic.
Interesting to hear how Terry helped you out. My main recollection was when Fish, Nixon and some others sent him a letter asking if he could move his tournament to a more traveler friendly location. It was way off of the beaten path. I dont think he moved his tournament but that was one of the factors that we took into account when planning the first Oktoberfest. Easy accessibility to the event for those driving. Lol we never considered that people might fly to it someday!!
 

BattleSchool

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Valid point about AARs. Very hard to do in cuneiform on clay tablets!!πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰πŸ€£πŸ€£πŸ€£πŸ€£
I'm actually keen to see his Lordship post one of his early DYO AARs. I can imagine it sounding something like this...

To the Right noble, and Valorous, His Countedness Tommas I, King of Nowhere, Lord of everything east of Kaunas and west of the Vilnius, and Czar of borderlands.

Sir knowing how doubtfully all AARs may be construed, and this missive of mine, which I have entitled The Guards are Back in Towne, being a continued AAR, or dark conceit, I have thought good as well for avoiding of jealous opinions and miscontructions, as also for your better light in reading thereof, (being so by you commanded) to discover unto you the general intention and meaning...
...
So humbly craving the continuance of your honourable favour towards me, and th'eternal establishment of your happiness, I humbly take leave.

The twentythird of January, in the year of our Lord 1589.
Yours most humbly affectionate,
Sir Thomas Repetti.
 
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