A2.4 and B.1 terrain movement costs

Matt Romey

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I was playing Chuck Hammond over the weekend and came across a rules issue that was new to us. We’ve gotten a lot of boards recently that incorporate hexes that are a combo of two types. e.g. woods/brush. Now, I never played that entry costs are cumulative, but I read A2.4 recently (apparently for the first time after all these years) which says entry cost MF are cumulative:

“A2.4 Terrain effects and movement costs of hexes containing more than one terrain feature (such as 2I9) are cumulative unless specified otherwise by the rules governing the involved terrain types."
Few people I know play it like that for all terrain types, but what the hell, it makes sense and that's what the rule says.
When I played like this with Chuck, applying 4MF for a brush/woods hex, he pushed back. So, we did some research and found the following. First, this rule:

"B.1 SYMBOLOGY: For aesthetic purposes, terrain symbology may extend marginally out of a hex into an adjacent hex of another type, but most hexes are dominated by one specific terrain type and are governed by the rules for that specific terrain type. Usually, the dominant terrain type includes the hex center dot, but occasionally building hexes have a hex center dot in Open Ground; an Open Ground hex center dot never changes a hex containing a building to an Open Ground hex. In some cases a hex will contain more than one terrain type with neither dominant over the other, in which case the terrain effects of both types are cumulative."
However, this doesn't really resolve the issue, as A2.4 is very clear, and the meaning of "dominated" in B.1 is vague. But then we found the following Q&A on B.1:

Q&A: "A4.31 & B.1 Using board 64. Non-bypass, no terrain or MF altering introductions. What is the MF cost for infantry to move from K1 to L1? What is the MF cost for infantry to move from M2 to L1?
A. Two MF in both cases; Woods is the dominant terrain in L1, there is no cumulative cost."
Which jibes with the way I've played it for 30 years and, while it largely negates A2.4 (IMO), it is clear. Both of our minds were kinda blown that the answer is hidden in a Q&A and that this hasn't come up more definitively on line. Or maybe it has come up and and we just didn’t notice.

I'd be interested to know how many already knew of this and/or whether we missed a nuance in our rules research.
 
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Actionjick

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I was playing Chuck Hammond over the weekend and came across a rules issue that was new to us. We’ve gotten a lot of boards recently that incorporate hexes that are a combo of two types. e.g. woods/brush. Now, I never played that entry costs are cumulative, but I read A2.4 recently (apparently for the first time after all these years) which says entry cost MF are cumulative:



Few people I know play it like that for all terrain types, but what the hell, it makes sense that's what the rule says.
When I played like this with Chuck, applying 4MF for a brush/woods hex, he pushed back. So, we did some research and found the following. First, this rule:



However, this doesn't really resolve the issue, as A2.4 is very clear, and the meaning of "dominated" in B.1 is vague. But then we found the following Q&A on B.1:



Which jibes with the way I've played it for 30 years and, while it largely negates A2.4 (IMO), it is clear. Both of our minds were kinda blown that this hasn't come up more definitively on line and that the answer is hidden in a Q&A. Or maybe it has come up and and we just didn’t notice.

I'd be interested to know how many already knew of this and/or whether we missed a nuance in our rules research.
In the Training Manual it covers this on page K3. Left hand column, the paragraph with the black square.

Movement cost and TEM cumulative.
 

Actionjick

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In the Training Manual it covers this on page K3. Left hand column, the paragraph with the black square.

Movement cost and TEM cumulative.
If the Q&A contradicts Chapter K what then? Or am I misinterpreting Chapter K?
 

lightspeed

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My page K3 (c 2005 by MMP) says, in the right column, paragraph with a square:

How many MF did that last MPh use? "Five, Drill Sergeant." Correct. I brought you
down here because I want to show you hex 19. It is unusual because it contains
both woods and a building. The cost to enter hexes like this is equal to the cost
to enter a woods hex plus the cost to enter a building hex; i.e., four MF (A2.4).
Let's do it. Whenever you have multiple terrain types in a hex such as this, the
movement cost and TEM of each is cumulative. The main exception is where
you find brush and woods in the same hex; the brush is considered just an extension
of the wood's undergrowth and therefore the movement cost is the same as entering

a woods hex.

Blue italics
added. Seems to me Chapter K, the rules, and the Q and A are in agreement.

Happy Easter!

indy
 

Actionjick

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My page K3 (c 2005 by MMP) says, in the right column, paragraph with a square:

How many MF did that last MPh use? "Five, Drill Sergeant." Correct. I brought you
down here because I want to show you hex 19. It is unusual because it contains
both woods and a building. The cost to enter hexes like this is equal to the cost
to enter a woods hex plus the cost to enter a building hex; i.e., four MF (A2.4).
Let's do it. Whenever you have multiple terrain types in a hex such as this, the
movement cost and TEM of each is cumulative. The main exception is where
you find brush and woods in the same hex; the brush is considered just an extension
of the wood's undergrowth and therefore the movement cost is the same as entering

a woods hex.

Blue italics
added. Seems to me Chapter K, the rules, and the Q and A are in agreement.

Happy Easter!

indy
Lol! Didn't read far enough. Posted quickly!😔
 

Actionjick

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I admit that I haven't read Chapter K since 1986, so that's a nice catch.
It just occurred to me to check there. Too anxious to post to read it all. Lol! Ninjas lurking everywhere!😉

Chapter K probably doesn't get the use it deserves.
 

Larry

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The main exception is where
you find brush and woods in the same hex; the brush is considered just an extension
of the wood's undergrowth and therefore the movement cost is the same as entering

a woods hex.

Blue italics
added. Seems to me Chapter K, the rules, and the Q and A are in agreement.

Happy Easter!

indy
And if PTO is in effect and instead of brush encroaching on the woods, it is bamboo?
 

von Marwitz

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And if PTO is in effect and instead of brush encroaching on the woods, it is bamboo?
At least I have always played it that you couldn't bypass a Woods/Brush hexside, i.e. a Jungle/Bamboo hexside in PTO.

von Marwitz
 

Larry

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Bypassing jungle through bamboo ... that's a tough gig. Entry of jungle through bamboo, tougher. I have always played it the same, that the hex is jungle and that the spillover is aesthetic, disallows VBM but does not create an entry problem.
 

klasmalmstrom

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For Bamboo/jungle there's a Q&A:

G3.
When Dense Jungle is in play, should one ignore completely a small amount of Brush (Bamboo) in an otherwise Woods (Dense
Jungle) hex?
When Light Jungle is in play, should one ignore a small amount of Brush (Bamboo) in an otherwise Woods (Light Jungle) hex? If
not, should it be considered “non-inherent Bamboo” along the depiction (blocking Bypass and LOS along the hexside and so on)?
If not, what is the correct treatment?
A. In both cases, treat it as jungle in the jungle hex.
 
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