SPW 251 AAMG

Simon62

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Hi All,

not sure if there are any restrictions in firing the SPW 251's AAMG outside of it's VCA - I can see no notes to say that it can't but given the gun is fixed above the drivers cab how can it be turned to fire outside of it's VCA. to fire through the rear covered arc the firer would need to be standing on the bonnet of the vehicle.

Maybe I have missed something on the counter or the notes?

Regards
 

Larry

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The SPW 251/1 and /16 do not.
The SPW 251/sMG, /12, /10, /22 do.
 

The Purist

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Hi All,

not sure if there are any restrictions in firing the SPW 251's AAMG outside of it's VCA - I can see no notes to say that it can't but given the gun is fixed above the drivers cab how can it be turned to fire outside of it's VCA. to fire through the rear covered arc the firer would need to be standing on the bonnet of the vehicle.

Maybe I have missed something on the counter or the notes?

Regards
You are probably thinking of photos of the the SPW 251/sMG. This MG carrier has the fixed CMG that you see with a small gunshield over the drivers compartment and an LMG on a pintle mount to the rear. Your standard SPW 251/1 has an AAMG on a pintle mount at the front or rear of the passenger compartment (but only one MG).

Siddkafitz 251/sMG

17389

Siddkafitz 251/1

17390
 

macrobo

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Hi All

My 2 cents worth is that (and I wish Paul was alive to enter this discussion) - I read they actually did not make as many of these 251's as what is suggested in all the ones present in ASL - you get the feeling they were like the US armoured divisions - full of M3's for bot CCA, CCB and CCR - only about 1300 251's in total produced so they were not a common thing outside of certain units

Cheers

Rob :)
 

Michael Dorosh

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Hi All

My 2 cents worth is that (and I wish Paul was alive to enter this discussion) - I read they actually did not make as many of these 251's as what is suggested in all the ones present in ASL - you get the feeling they were like the US armoured divisions - full of M3's for bot CCA, CCB and CCR - only about 1300 251's in total produced so they were not a common thing outside of certain units

Cheers

Rob :)
They were never issued more than one battalion per regiment and sometimes one company per regiment

Panzer and panzergrenadier divisions were less than 10% of the German Army's total number of divisions

Even the elite Panzergrenadier Division Großdeutschland never had a full complement of them.
 

Actionjick

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Hi All

My 2 cents worth is that (and I wish Paul was alive to enter this discussion) - I read they actually did not make as many of these 251's as what is suggested in all the ones present in ASL - you get the feeling they were like the US armoured divisions - full of M3's for bot CCA, CCB and CCR - only about 1300 251's in total produced so they were not a common thing outside of certain units

Cheers

Rob :)
Was thinking of Paul when viewing this thread earlier. RIP comrade.
 

Michael Dorosh

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The wiki suggests 15,000 Sd.Kfz. 251 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._251

and 6,600 Sd.Kfz. 250 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._250

Are those numbers inaccurate?
The first SPW units went into action in Poland in 1939 as a combat trial. I once interviewed a veteran in his home here in Calgary, who had served in one of the trial units. He later ended up in what became the Panzer Lehr Division. 15,000 doesn't seem unreasonable given the length of time that SPWs were used in action, and in fact, German production figures for AFVs are inflated in references by the inclusion of armoured halftrack production numbers. I think the ASLRB references that in Chapter H.
 

The Purist

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You seldom saw more than one battalion of halftracks (if that, many had just a company or two), except in the most favoured divisions. The Hanomags were a bit labour intensive due to the complexity of the drive train and were smaller than the US M3/M5s. The smaller SdKfz 250s in the reconnaissance roles saw similar shortages.

The situation got worse when Hitler deployed the "Volkspanzer" Brigades (about 15 of them) in the fall of 1944. This were poorly trained but marvelously equipped units that were largely shot to pieces in a few days or within couple of weeks. A lot of new halftracks were lost in these battles and would not be available to equip the panzers in the Ardennes come December.
 
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