Platoon movement

Juan SantaX

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What happens when you have just one radioless AFV entering on turn 1? I cant find anything on the rules, but I remember some SSR that cope with that.

Its ASL 248, SIAM SAMBAL
 

Martin Mayers

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What happens when you have just one radioless AFV entering on turn 1? I cant find anything on the rules, but I remember some SSR that cope with that.

Its ASL 248, SIAM SAMBAL
Hi Juan...

Offboard AFV must use Platoon Movement "if possible"
 

ScottRomanowski

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There's a PerrySez from 2000
"D14.23 Must a single radioless AFV use non-platoon movement penalties if it is the only AFV in the side’s OB?
A. Yes, once it is onboard. [Peter Manger, quoting Perry Cocke, ASLML, 22 Aug 2000]"
 

Philippe D.

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Hi Juan...

Offboard AFV must use Platoon Movement "if possible"
Actually this rule (D14.212) is there to force a platoon that enters in different impulses to keep moving as a platoon, I'd say. D14.23 says explicitly that the NTC to start non-platoon movement only occurs for onboard AFV, so lone radioless AFVs can move freely on their entrance turn.
 

EagleIV

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A lone off board radioless AFV can enter freely, but if 2 or more AFVs enter on the same turn and only 1 is radioless, then on the turn that it enters it will need to use platoon movement with an AFV that has a radio.
 

Actionjick

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A lone off board radioless AFV can enter freely, but if 2 or more AFVs enter on the same turn and only 1 is radioless, then on the turn that it enters it will need to use platoon movement with an AFV that has a radio.
I would assume that this would not apply if they were required to enter from non-adjacent hexes?
 

ScottRomanowski

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Yes, that would make sense. Since it's a scenario issue, I wouldn't expect the rules to cover it, and the scenario designer would have to explain it in the scenario.
 

Philippe D.

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A lone off board radioless AFV can enter freely, but if 2 or more AFVs enter on the same turn and only 1 is radioless, then on the turn that it enters it will need to use platoon movement with an AFV that has a radio.
Do you have a rules to quote to support this? It isn't what I understand from D14.212 and D14.23.

D14.23 doesn't require a radioless AFV that starts its MPh offboard to make a movement TC; and D14.212 can be read to require a radioless AFV to use platoon movement if an adjacent AFV exists, but I don't see anything that would force the player to setup his AFV adjacent (thus allowing the lone radioless AFV to move without platoon movement, since no other vehicle is there to form a platoon), or even prevent initially adjacent radioless and radio-equipped AFV to enter together (the radio-equipped AFV can enter first, and then the other is unable to use platoon movement).

Note: I checked Klas' PerrySez collection, and there's one about D14.2 that does say two radioless AFV entering in the same turn have to set up as a platoon, so it looks like there is such a setup restriction. I still don't see how it follows from the rules - the setup is strictly before entrance, and I don't see how the setup is constrained.
 

Martin Mayers

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Do you have a rules to quote to support this? It isn't what I understand from D14.212 and D14.23.

D14.23 doesn't require a radioless AFV that starts its MPh offboard to make a movement TC; and D14.212 can be read to require a radioless AFV to use platoon movement if an adjacent AFV exists, but I don't see anything that would force the player to setup his AFV adjacent (thus allowing the lone radioless AFV to move without platoon movement, since no other vehicle is there to form a platoon), or even prevent initially adjacent radioless and radio-equipped AFV to enter together (the radio-equipped AFV can enter first, and then the other is unable to use platoon movement).

Note: I checked Klas' PerrySez collection, and there's one about D14.2 that does say two radioless AFV entering in the same turn have to set up as a platoon, so it looks like there is such a setup restriction. I still don't see how it follows from the rules - the setup is strictly before entrance, and I don't see how the setup is constrained.
Convinced you're overthinking this and tying yourself up in a knot.

D14.212 verbatim says (under the heading offboard movement) - An offboard AFV must use Platoon Movement if possible.

If it's on it's own...it's not possible.

If it's with ANY other tank...it is possible and therefore "must use Platoon Movement"
 

Philippe D.

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I suppose that's a possible reading, but I'd still be more comfortable with this if the offboard setup was mentioned. I still believe one could "forget" to setup the AFVs next to each other and argue that, by now, platoon movement is not possible. If setup is to be constrained, it should be mentioned. Otherwise, "if possible" is not clear: when is the possibility checked?
 

klasmalmstrom

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Here's a Q&A.

D14.2
A side has four radioless AFVs that can enter on/after turn 1. Can they enter one at a time, e.g. on turns 1, 2, 3 & 4? A side has two
radioless AFVs that have to enter on turn 1. Do they have to set up as a platoon?
A. Yes to both.
 

Philippe D.

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Yes, I've seen this Q&A (and even mentioned it). I have no problem applying it; I'm just curious, that's not how I read what's written in the rules.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Personally I think "An offboard radioless AFV must use Platoon Movement if possible." is rather clear.
 

Philippe D.

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"Must use platoon movement if possible, and must set up so as to make it possible if it can" would be way clearer. As I said, it's not clear whether this means some offboard setup options are forbidden; it could very well be argued that it doesn't, so that you'd check for the possibility of platoon movement only when the AFV's MPh starts.
 

ScottRomanowski

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I think the "if possible" is clear -- if it is possible to set them up so they can use platoon movement, you can't voluntarily do something that prevents them from using Platoon Movement.
 
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