The Purist
Elder Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,917
- Reaction score
- 1,480
- Location
- In my castle by the sea, Trochu, AB
- First name
- Gerry
- Country
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Also Known As:
Tom and Gerry’s Excellent Adventure
ROAR/ASL Archive - 13 Russian wins vs 4 German wins as of posting this AAR.
Last Christmas the two Tuomo’s played this scenario for the Illuminating Rounds YouTube channel and set off one of the more lively discussions we’ve seen on IRs. This inspired others to have a go at the scenario with additional AARs being posted. While von Marwitz and I sat down to play a live game, Tom Y (Eagle4ty) and I began a PbEM game 31 Dec that wrapped up 13/14 March with some 91 log files being exchanged. Here is our AAR with comments.
t.y.: Asked by Gerry if I would consider a game of BoF 16 “Saluting A General” I acquiesced to his request after reading some other AARs about the scenario. Not a scenario that would normally trip my trigger as a force of Germans have as their objective to seize a piece of non-descript wooded terrain with no real military value from the Russians and the scenario objective has only a mild relevance to the background information (and real world) situation presented. My first question was why had the designers even bothered to delve into an attempt for historical accuracy for forces involved yet so totally miss the overriding rational for the engagement in the first place. However, I have enjoyed other offerings by the designers and overlooked the historical shortcomings of the scenario design for the game design elements that I was fairly sure was fairly well done.
Set Up
Gerry: As the Russian this time I looked at how to improve a few Russian DFF opportunities without committing much in the way of additional strength to the picket line. To this end I placed the usual five squads along the forward line with two in an ‘intermediate line’ (including the ATR covering the Bd 42 road) and four squads with the HMG, LMG, both SMC and 82* Mortar to the rear. The weight was set a bit more to the north as I wanted to discourage a German infantry thrust across the more open ground and hopefully convince Tom to drive harder in the south across the more difficult Board 42 woods terrain. The route to the VC area was longer here and it might buy me some time should my Russian infantry fail to make much impression on the German advance (which turned out to be more accurate than I had hoped).
Tom: Looking at the terrain it is quite evident there are 3 distinct avenues of approach towards the objective area:
1). The northern approach (board 5) offers little to invite a major push thru this area as it quickly narrows to a single viable rapid approach with a constricting woods-road on its perimeter. Additionally, an early push by any infantry in this area would have to contend with much open ground to cross, easily defended by paltry forces falling back slowly with plenty of covering terrain to assist their egress in relatively good shape.
2). The central approach was thru the board 85 village that would allow a relatively rapid avenue of advance for armored forces but offer a defended a plethora of good defensive terrain modifiers for defending infantry well into the depth of the position if adequately defended. It also afforded a relatively safe egress all the way back to final objective for the defenders while providing several fall back positions with good fields of fire against advancing infantry should I choose to attack infantry heavy in this area. In my estimation if adequately defended, this would induce the largest amount of infantry casualties to clear and impose the greatest amount of delay upon what I considered would be an infantry fight for the ultimate objective in the final turns.
3). The third approach is of course through the board 42 village and towards the hedge encircled compound. Though the village is primarily consisting of stone structures it offers the German infantry a relatively covered and concealed attack avenue and an ability to engage and overcome resistance relative close to their jump off positions. It also offers and decent route of advance to flank Russian positions on board 85 and decent final objective attack positions especially if a rapid advance to flank and envelope the objective by either troops or fire could be made.
After viewing Gerry’s initial infantry defense I opted for the board 42 approach only being mildly surprised he had only garrisoned the village with a single stack and had deployed another a bit too far forward in reserve with limited fall back opportunities towards the final objective once my armor (armour for Gerry) had arrived. My biggest failure thus far had been to not allocate enough infantry to the Bd5-85 push (perhaps another sqd or sqd & HS), this would have severe repercussions much later on.
Turns One and Two:
Gerry: Being right about Tom’s direction of attack didn’t make me at all happy as my infantry couldn’t seem to pass a #MC or PTC to save their lives (literally). My whinging early in the game was focused against a series of 2 and 4 FP attacks (usually with a 0 or even +1 mod) that would eventually cost me six of the eleven squads with little or nothing to show for it. Rally attempts did not go much better and in the end only five squads made it back to the VC area. About the only thing I could claim as a silver lining was that the Germans slowed down some infantry to gather the prisoners.
My tanks did get into initial positions but like others, we did not realize the LOS along the board 85 forest road was blocked so I had some Acq markers placed where they had no right to be. Tom’s armour rumbled onto the map and made short work of whatever Russian infantry was within reach.
Tom: I envisioned my attack as taking successive objectives and using the bulk of my panzer force to draw his tank’s attention away from the main axis of approach. To this end I had designated the objectives as “Anna (Bd 42 village area)”, “Betty (Bd 85 village area)”, “Claire (Bd 42 compound area)”, “Debbie (Woods & Walls Vic 85K5)”, and the final objective “Erika (always a great name for a German objective-love the song)”. My infantry force was heavy on Bd 42 with a small left flank force (too small as mentioned) to push through Bd 5-85). My panzer force was organized just the opposite with a heavy platoon tasked for bd 85 and a light plt assigned to support the main infantry push, a Pz IIIJ with an armor Ldr was assigned to each.
As Gerry alluded to during the 1st couple of turns I was able to envelope Anna and she succumbed to my advances but not without a whimper, as though her defenses quickly faded resistance offered slowed my approach towards Claire by about a half a turn. Also, my plan showed its weakness early and I had to adjust on the fly detaching a HS and my 2nd Pz IIIJ towards Betty to ensure she had sufficient pressure put upon her to enable my left arm of the attack to attain its objectives of taking Betty and drawing his armor in that direction. Though my early shots were fairly decent I also began to be concerned about this as I realized that in ASL what goes around usually comes around and I would probably miss those low DRs further on in the engagement. Also, by turn 2 Gerry had adjusted to the fact his near hard forward defense was a fallacy and though I had hurt several of his infantry, he started pulling the rest of his gravel agitators rapidly back towards Debbie & Erika covered by his armor.
Turn Three (German):
Gerry: Tom’s turn three saw a snappy CH against a HD Stuart but this was countered by a gun malf’n on one of his three Pz IIIJs (it was quickly repaired). This turn also saw a bit of overreach by the German panzer commander as he rolled into view of the Russian kill stack of two 447, an 8-1, the HMG and LMG. The result was a stunned crew. At the same time my attempt to retreat with the mortar was cut off as another Pz III rolled into 42W2 and a flanking position versus a HD Lee in 85K6. It was here that the first instance of the slower PbEM pace helped me out. The 82* mortar was assembled and took a Def Fire shot that not only hit 42W2 but also Stunned the crew and immobilized the tank.
Tom: As you will notice from the pictures throughout the battle both sides choose to fight crew exposed most of the time. As noted above this did cause me some consternation especially in the Claire objective as two tanks were subjected to Stuns. However with a low APCR availability number and marginal penetration value of AP ammunition vs the majority of his armor I figured a bounding (first) fire shot was much preferred with a lower TH DRM especially with a ROF of 2. In fact many of my shots were HE hoping to get a specific collateral attack against his CE crews as opposed using APCR early or an AP hit with a low probability of a kill result.
On Gerry’s part, I must add the assemble-&-shot by the 82* Mtr in the same phase was a nice touch regardless of the fact the result was rather disappointing to me. I was, however, a bit buoyed by the fact I had inflicted first blood in our armor engagement and had severely reduced his infantry force thus far.
Turn Three (Russian):
Gerry: By the Russian turn three it had become clear that the infantry that was going to make it back to defend the VC woods had done so and they would have to manage. I made use of the gun notes for the 82* mortar and dropped +3 Smoke on the immobilized Pz III in order to help the Lee in 85K6 withdraw. The mortar was then disassembled and I hoped to advance away and out of LOS. I was to be disappointed as a German Def Fire shot gunned down the crew with a K/2. I also realized that too much armour was in the north and I shifted most of it to the centre and south of the map to hopefully prevent a deeper flank move. The Stuarts are fast and as Tom had yet to commit his main armoured attack, I was able to move the tanks into better positions.
Turn Four (German):
Gerry: Tom’s armour began its main attack and attempted to isolate and kill a Stuart in 85J5 with two Pz IIIJs, one popping SDs and laying +2 Smoke. Boris the Brave took up the challenge and promptly killed one Pz IIIJ with a CH and then bounced a number of rounds off the second panzer. This would set off a gun duel between the two tanks over the next full turn with both sides using IF, wrenches, rocks, pointy sticks and extremely harsh language.
Later, a third Pz III also came into LOS of the Lee in 85J2 which snapped off a B75 CH that blew the overmatched tank into small bits and pieces. Two more Pz IIIs manoeuvred into position in 85Q9 and Q10 to engage a third Russian tank in 85I10, setting off another shoot out. All the while, German infantry pressed forward into the 85I1 woods while one more Pz III began a flanking move to the south. The score was now two dead German tanks to one Russian and the fun had just begun.
Tom: As stated it was this turn that things started to heat up (literally for a couple of my panzers). It was also this turn that it became overbearingly clear that I should have allocated another couple of HS (at least) to the direct assault on Debbie, she was disturbingly alluring but certainly made of sterner stuff. With Gerry corseting Debbie & Erika with his armor, my relatively unsupported and weaker panzers would have to face a plethora of shots from Russian tanks in decent positions and normally getting off first shots. Added to this was the fact Gerry had shown he was not averse to tempting the fates with intensive fire shots and had yet to malfunction a single weapon even with a reduced breakdown number.
Turn Four (Russian):
Gerry: By Russian turn four it was clear the Russian armour was still not placed to best support the infantry in the woods. While I could have tried to pull back the two remaining Stuarts, they both had worthwhile targets in either tanks or infantry so they remained to play rearguard and earn their posthumous Hero of the Soviet Union medals. It came as a surprise to both Tom and I that the Stuart in 85F1 and the Pz III in 42W5 could not see each other (thanks to a BMG burst), so the Stuart turned its remaining guns on the infantry closing through the adjacent woods. I did score an HE CH but it didn’t do much in the way of permanent damage.
The Stuart in 85J5 fired off three shots at the Pz IIIJ in the smoke to no avail, leaving brave Boris to mutter a few prayers to Saint Nikolas. The Lee in 85I10 dispatched the second Pz IIIJ then turned its guns on the ATR squad before it could try to immobilize him,… thankfully the ATR ran out of ammunition or jammed or whatever. With these successes the remaining two Lee tanks pulled back to cover the 85I1 woods with their various cannon and machine guns while the Russian infantry sorted themselves out in the final positions.
Tom: By now I was down 4 panzers to Russian fire, 2xPz IIIJ, Pz IIIH & an immobilized Pz IIIG, and my main infantry force was seemingly hugging the skirts of Claire in what was becoming a one dimension effort. Between the MGs of the Russian armor and the double slaps of the Lee’s guns every time the infantry were able to push toward Erika they were repulsed with extreme prejudice in the other direction. Thus far only the single Stuart had been deleted from the Russian OB, this would have to change fast as the projection for future successful mission accomplishment was starting to fade fast.
To be Continued.
Tom and Gerry’s Excellent Adventure
ROAR/ASL Archive - 13 Russian wins vs 4 German wins as of posting this AAR.
Last Christmas the two Tuomo’s played this scenario for the Illuminating Rounds YouTube channel and set off one of the more lively discussions we’ve seen on IRs. This inspired others to have a go at the scenario with additional AARs being posted. While von Marwitz and I sat down to play a live game, Tom Y (Eagle4ty) and I began a PbEM game 31 Dec that wrapped up 13/14 March with some 91 log files being exchanged. Here is our AAR with comments.
t.y.: Asked by Gerry if I would consider a game of BoF 16 “Saluting A General” I acquiesced to his request after reading some other AARs about the scenario. Not a scenario that would normally trip my trigger as a force of Germans have as their objective to seize a piece of non-descript wooded terrain with no real military value from the Russians and the scenario objective has only a mild relevance to the background information (and real world) situation presented. My first question was why had the designers even bothered to delve into an attempt for historical accuracy for forces involved yet so totally miss the overriding rational for the engagement in the first place. However, I have enjoyed other offerings by the designers and overlooked the historical shortcomings of the scenario design for the game design elements that I was fairly sure was fairly well done.
Set Up
Gerry: As the Russian this time I looked at how to improve a few Russian DFF opportunities without committing much in the way of additional strength to the picket line. To this end I placed the usual five squads along the forward line with two in an ‘intermediate line’ (including the ATR covering the Bd 42 road) and four squads with the HMG, LMG, both SMC and 82* Mortar to the rear. The weight was set a bit more to the north as I wanted to discourage a German infantry thrust across the more open ground and hopefully convince Tom to drive harder in the south across the more difficult Board 42 woods terrain. The route to the VC area was longer here and it might buy me some time should my Russian infantry fail to make much impression on the German advance (which turned out to be more accurate than I had hoped).
Tom: Looking at the terrain it is quite evident there are 3 distinct avenues of approach towards the objective area:
1). The northern approach (board 5) offers little to invite a major push thru this area as it quickly narrows to a single viable rapid approach with a constricting woods-road on its perimeter. Additionally, an early push by any infantry in this area would have to contend with much open ground to cross, easily defended by paltry forces falling back slowly with plenty of covering terrain to assist their egress in relatively good shape.
2). The central approach was thru the board 85 village that would allow a relatively rapid avenue of advance for armored forces but offer a defended a plethora of good defensive terrain modifiers for defending infantry well into the depth of the position if adequately defended. It also afforded a relatively safe egress all the way back to final objective for the defenders while providing several fall back positions with good fields of fire against advancing infantry should I choose to attack infantry heavy in this area. In my estimation if adequately defended, this would induce the largest amount of infantry casualties to clear and impose the greatest amount of delay upon what I considered would be an infantry fight for the ultimate objective in the final turns.
3). The third approach is of course through the board 42 village and towards the hedge encircled compound. Though the village is primarily consisting of stone structures it offers the German infantry a relatively covered and concealed attack avenue and an ability to engage and overcome resistance relative close to their jump off positions. It also offers and decent route of advance to flank Russian positions on board 85 and decent final objective attack positions especially if a rapid advance to flank and envelope the objective by either troops or fire could be made.
After viewing Gerry’s initial infantry defense I opted for the board 42 approach only being mildly surprised he had only garrisoned the village with a single stack and had deployed another a bit too far forward in reserve with limited fall back opportunities towards the final objective once my armor (armour for Gerry) had arrived. My biggest failure thus far had been to not allocate enough infantry to the Bd5-85 push (perhaps another sqd or sqd & HS), this would have severe repercussions much later on.
Turns One and Two:
Gerry: Being right about Tom’s direction of attack didn’t make me at all happy as my infantry couldn’t seem to pass a #MC or PTC to save their lives (literally). My whinging early in the game was focused against a series of 2 and 4 FP attacks (usually with a 0 or even +1 mod) that would eventually cost me six of the eleven squads with little or nothing to show for it. Rally attempts did not go much better and in the end only five squads made it back to the VC area. About the only thing I could claim as a silver lining was that the Germans slowed down some infantry to gather the prisoners.
My tanks did get into initial positions but like others, we did not realize the LOS along the board 85 forest road was blocked so I had some Acq markers placed where they had no right to be. Tom’s armour rumbled onto the map and made short work of whatever Russian infantry was within reach.
Tom: I envisioned my attack as taking successive objectives and using the bulk of my panzer force to draw his tank’s attention away from the main axis of approach. To this end I had designated the objectives as “Anna (Bd 42 village area)”, “Betty (Bd 85 village area)”, “Claire (Bd 42 compound area)”, “Debbie (Woods & Walls Vic 85K5)”, and the final objective “Erika (always a great name for a German objective-love the song)”. My infantry force was heavy on Bd 42 with a small left flank force (too small as mentioned) to push through Bd 5-85). My panzer force was organized just the opposite with a heavy platoon tasked for bd 85 and a light plt assigned to support the main infantry push, a Pz IIIJ with an armor Ldr was assigned to each.
As Gerry alluded to during the 1st couple of turns I was able to envelope Anna and she succumbed to my advances but not without a whimper, as though her defenses quickly faded resistance offered slowed my approach towards Claire by about a half a turn. Also, my plan showed its weakness early and I had to adjust on the fly detaching a HS and my 2nd Pz IIIJ towards Betty to ensure she had sufficient pressure put upon her to enable my left arm of the attack to attain its objectives of taking Betty and drawing his armor in that direction. Though my early shots were fairly decent I also began to be concerned about this as I realized that in ASL what goes around usually comes around and I would probably miss those low DRs further on in the engagement. Also, by turn 2 Gerry had adjusted to the fact his near hard forward defense was a fallacy and though I had hurt several of his infantry, he started pulling the rest of his gravel agitators rapidly back towards Debbie & Erika covered by his armor.
Turn Three (German):
Gerry: Tom’s turn three saw a snappy CH against a HD Stuart but this was countered by a gun malf’n on one of his three Pz IIIJs (it was quickly repaired). This turn also saw a bit of overreach by the German panzer commander as he rolled into view of the Russian kill stack of two 447, an 8-1, the HMG and LMG. The result was a stunned crew. At the same time my attempt to retreat with the mortar was cut off as another Pz III rolled into 42W2 and a flanking position versus a HD Lee in 85K6. It was here that the first instance of the slower PbEM pace helped me out. The 82* mortar was assembled and took a Def Fire shot that not only hit 42W2 but also Stunned the crew and immobilized the tank.
Tom: As you will notice from the pictures throughout the battle both sides choose to fight crew exposed most of the time. As noted above this did cause me some consternation especially in the Claire objective as two tanks were subjected to Stuns. However with a low APCR availability number and marginal penetration value of AP ammunition vs the majority of his armor I figured a bounding (first) fire shot was much preferred with a lower TH DRM especially with a ROF of 2. In fact many of my shots were HE hoping to get a specific collateral attack against his CE crews as opposed using APCR early or an AP hit with a low probability of a kill result.
On Gerry’s part, I must add the assemble-&-shot by the 82* Mtr in the same phase was a nice touch regardless of the fact the result was rather disappointing to me. I was, however, a bit buoyed by the fact I had inflicted first blood in our armor engagement and had severely reduced his infantry force thus far.
Turn Three (Russian):
Gerry: By the Russian turn three it had become clear that the infantry that was going to make it back to defend the VC woods had done so and they would have to manage. I made use of the gun notes for the 82* mortar and dropped +3 Smoke on the immobilized Pz III in order to help the Lee in 85K6 withdraw. The mortar was then disassembled and I hoped to advance away and out of LOS. I was to be disappointed as a German Def Fire shot gunned down the crew with a K/2. I also realized that too much armour was in the north and I shifted most of it to the centre and south of the map to hopefully prevent a deeper flank move. The Stuarts are fast and as Tom had yet to commit his main armoured attack, I was able to move the tanks into better positions.
Turn Four (German):
Gerry: Tom’s armour began its main attack and attempted to isolate and kill a Stuart in 85J5 with two Pz IIIJs, one popping SDs and laying +2 Smoke. Boris the Brave took up the challenge and promptly killed one Pz IIIJ with a CH and then bounced a number of rounds off the second panzer. This would set off a gun duel between the two tanks over the next full turn with both sides using IF, wrenches, rocks, pointy sticks and extremely harsh language.
Later, a third Pz III also came into LOS of the Lee in 85J2 which snapped off a B75 CH that blew the overmatched tank into small bits and pieces. Two more Pz IIIs manoeuvred into position in 85Q9 and Q10 to engage a third Russian tank in 85I10, setting off another shoot out. All the while, German infantry pressed forward into the 85I1 woods while one more Pz III began a flanking move to the south. The score was now two dead German tanks to one Russian and the fun had just begun.
Tom: As stated it was this turn that things started to heat up (literally for a couple of my panzers). It was also this turn that it became overbearingly clear that I should have allocated another couple of HS (at least) to the direct assault on Debbie, she was disturbingly alluring but certainly made of sterner stuff. With Gerry corseting Debbie & Erika with his armor, my relatively unsupported and weaker panzers would have to face a plethora of shots from Russian tanks in decent positions and normally getting off first shots. Added to this was the fact Gerry had shown he was not averse to tempting the fates with intensive fire shots and had yet to malfunction a single weapon even with a reduced breakdown number.
Turn Four (Russian):
Gerry: By Russian turn four it was clear the Russian armour was still not placed to best support the infantry in the woods. While I could have tried to pull back the two remaining Stuarts, they both had worthwhile targets in either tanks or infantry so they remained to play rearguard and earn their posthumous Hero of the Soviet Union medals. It came as a surprise to both Tom and I that the Stuart in 85F1 and the Pz III in 42W5 could not see each other (thanks to a BMG burst), so the Stuart turned its remaining guns on the infantry closing through the adjacent woods. I did score an HE CH but it didn’t do much in the way of permanent damage.
The Stuart in 85J5 fired off three shots at the Pz IIIJ in the smoke to no avail, leaving brave Boris to mutter a few prayers to Saint Nikolas. The Lee in 85I10 dispatched the second Pz IIIJ then turned its guns on the ATR squad before it could try to immobilize him,… thankfully the ATR ran out of ammunition or jammed or whatever. With these successes the remaining two Lee tanks pulled back to cover the 85I1 woods with their various cannon and machine guns while the Russian infantry sorted themselves out in the final positions.
Tom: By now I was down 4 panzers to Russian fire, 2xPz IIIJ, Pz IIIH & an immobilized Pz IIIG, and my main infantry force was seemingly hugging the skirts of Claire in what was becoming a one dimension effort. Between the MGs of the Russian armor and the double slaps of the Lee’s guns every time the infantry were able to push toward Erika they were repulsed with extreme prejudice in the other direction. Thus far only the single Stuart had been deleted from the Russian OB, this would have to change fast as the projection for future successful mission accomplishment was starting to fade fast.
To be Continued.
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