Shooting AP at troops in winter camouflage in a pillbox (9 hexes or more)

Will Fleming

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Say my tank shoots some pesky infantry in a pillbox with AP ammo (sufficient to penetrate and ignore the TEM), but the troops have snow camo. Does it get the +1 LV?

B30.35 AP: Neither the CA nor the NCA Defense Modification nor other TEM applies to an AP/APCR/APDS attack against a pillbox/its-contents, provided the Basic TK# of that ammo type being fired is > twice the Defense Modification that would otherwise apply. An AP/APCR/APDS hit on a pillbox is resolved using the normal HE-Equivalency rules (C8.31).

E 3.712 WINTER CAMOUFLAGE: In any type of snow, any Infantry unit/vehicle (not PRC) specified as having Winter Camouflage receives a +1 LV Hindrance DRM when fired upon beyond eight hexes if Infantry, or beyond 16 hexes otherwise [EXC: OBA, Residual FP, Fire Lane] unless it already qualifies for a positive TEM other than SMOKE. Such a unit also receives a -1 drm to its Concealment dr (A12.122). Winter Camouflaged Infantry may Assault Move/advance into Open Ground regardless of range from enemy units without loss of "?".
 

Vinnie

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I would say yes.
Given that gun size can modify your to hit roll if the gun is in a pillbox, winter camouflage will as well.
 

von Marwitz

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I agree with Vinnie.
To visualize this, one could imagine that the Pillbox itself is winter camouflaged.

von Marwitz
 

Pacman Ghost

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To visualize this, one could imagine that the Pillbox itself is winter camouflaged.
Indeed. Will had been making snow angels with his tanks [*], I had built a little snow fort, with nothing but snowballs to defend myself against his rampaging Russian horde :( Those AP rounds just went sailing through the walls...

[*] Literally. He had them spinning around in circles, to burn off MP :LOL:
 

FourDeuceMF

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Too cold for summer uniform! 😉
Sadly, it says "camouflage", not 'Winter Gear'.

I can tell you, from experience, the two aren't the same. Back in the 80s, our 'Winter Camo' was typically a thin white 'smock' with hoodie, to be worn over the usual inadequate warming uniform...didn't work at Wildflecken in 1988, I doubt it would have worked any better in 1942 on the Eastern Front.

Sure, they can't see your frozen-solid corpse from a distance, but was that the effect you were going after? 🥶😝
 

Actionjick

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Sadly, it says "camouflage", not 'Winter Gear'.

I can tell you, from experience, the two aren't the same. Back in the 80s, our 'Winter Camo' was typically a thin white 'smock' with hoodie, to be worn over the usual inadequate warming uniform...didn't work at Wildflecken in 1988, I doubt it would have worked any better in 1942 on the Eastern Front.

Sure, they can't see your frozen-solid corpse from a distance, but was that the effect you were going after? 🥶😝
Any port in a snow storm!!😉🤣🤣
 

Actionjick

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Sadly, it says "camouflage", not 'Winter Gear'.

I can tell you, from experience, the two aren't the same. Back in the 80s, our 'Winter Camo' was typically a thin white 'smock' with hoodie, to be worn over the usual inadequate warming uniform...didn't work at Wildflecken in 1988, I doubt it would have worked any better in 1942 on the Eastern Front.

Sure, they can't see your frozen-solid corpse from a distance, but was that the effect you were going after? 🥶😝
Lol. Well from a sailor's perspective the pea coat was fairly good in the winter but the dixie cup hat left something to be desired.
 

Stewart

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E 3.712 WINTER CAMOUFLAGE: unless it already qualifies for a positive TEM other than SMOKE. Such a unit also receives a -1 drm to its Concealment dr (A12.122). Winter Camouflaged Infantry may Assault Move/advance into Open Ground regardless of range from enemy units without loss of "?".
It qualifies for the TEM...but doesn't get it due to AP shot.
It doesn't say the TEM has to APPLY or receive.

No Camo
 
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