Multiple TCA changes in the same phase

[Sparafucil3]

The culmination of this sleaze is shooting a VCA only AAMG to do the same thing.

This is not allowed:

D1.83 ANTI-AIRCRAFT MG (AAMG): The AAMG FP may be used either within or outside of its vehicular current TCA/VCA at no penalty; i.e., for rules purposes it is considered neither “turret-mounted” nor “bow-mounted” (3.51) [EXC: AAMG with restricted CA (e.g., German StuG IIIG or French H35) must pay the applicable Case A penalty for changing TCA/VCA as appropriate]. ...

Unless the AAMG has a fixed CA, you can't use the AAMG to turn CA, VCA or TCA. You can use the MA and CMG/BMG/SA. You could probably use the RMG but you can't fire the RMG and the MA in the same Phase so it isn't likely to change anyone's thinking. -- jim

 

[Sparafucil3]

Don't know why not. To change the VCA/TCA to bear on the target at the same time is not an uncommon practice, especially an ATG (matter of fact that's what you're taught).

See below. This is excluded per D1.83 unless the AAMG has a fixed CA. -- jim

 

[fanatic+1]

This is not allowed:

Unless the AAMG has a fixed CA, you can't use the AAMG to turn CA, VCA or TCA. You can use the MA and CMG/BMG/SA. You could probably use the RMG but you can't fire the RMG and the MA in the same Phase so it isn't likely to change anyone's thinking. -- jim

Hence my use of the term “VCA only” AAAMG.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Sure, if the enemy is placed for it, one could first take a three-hexside spin VCA change (+5) and shoot such an AAMG, and the just make one additional VCA change (+3) for the MA shot and the "real" target.

 

[Chas]

I seem to remember a while back there was Q and A or something that prevented the "AAMG sleaze".

In reading D3.51 all of the provisions only apply to turret or bow mounted weapons, not AAMG

 

[von Marwitz]

I seem to remember a while back there was Q and A or something that prevented the "AAMG sleaze".

In reading D3.51 all of the provisions only apply to turret or bow mounted weapons, not AAMG

I seem to recall the same. You can't use an AAMG for the purpose [EXC: If the AAMG has a limited CA into which it can fire without turning the vehicle.].

von Marwitz

 

[Sparafucil3]

Hence my use of the term “VCA only” AAAMG.

I did not notice the VCA-only caveat. Mea culpa. -- jim

 

[Sparafucil3]

I seem to remember a while back there was Q and A or something that prevented the "AAMG sleaze".

In reading D3.51 all of the provisions only apply to turret or bow mounted weapons, not AAMG

So while an AAMG is on the turret, it is not considered a "turret mounted" (D1.83). Per D3.12, it has to be a "turret-mounted" weapon to change TCA or a "turret/bow-mounted" weapon to change the VCA. -- jim

 

[turlusiflu]

Is it legal to change a CA to fire at a target that was already within that CA (in order to improve the firer's facing vs any attack against it)? I think so, but not sure...

 

[Jazz]

Yeah, Jazz and Sleaze are synonymous...wouldn't be surprised at all!

Flattery will get you absolutely nothing....

 

[Eagle4ty]

Is it legal to change a CA to fire at a target that was already within that CA (in order to improve the firer's facing vs any attack against it)? I think so, but not sure...

As long as otherwise able to do so (e.g. you have not fixed your CA; you are able to use an appropriate weapon system to fire, etc.), one may always change a CA to fire at a target. COWTRA.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I think so too. And don't forget the vehicle might be eligible for the D2.11 free CA changes at the end of any fire phase.

 

[turlusiflu]

An AFV with a T turret pointing forward (same TCA as VCA) turns its VCA 2 hexspines to make an attack, paying DRM +4 for Case A. Is it allowed to turn then its TCA 1 hexspine to fire its MA at that same target with only DRM +1 for Case A? (In other words, he is changing TCA to fire at a target that he has already in his CA)

 

[Larry]

The MA will pay the +4 once. There is a better rules reference but this is clear:

C5.12 The Case A DRM is applicable only to a Gun which made a CA
change as part of its shot. If a Gun makes a CA change and fires with a
Case A DRM and then fires again in the same phase, the Case A DRM
will not apply unless it changes its CA again for the next shot.

See D3.51 -- the better rules reference.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I think @Larry's answer is for the case where the MA fires, keeps ROF, and fires again. If the attack after the VCA change was from a BMG or CMG, then the MA would pay a +5 DRM. See the D3.51 example, especially the second paragraph.

 

[turlusiflu]

Ok, I missed one important point, what I said is only valid when firing at another target outside the current TCA

 

[Jazz]

An AFV with a T turret pointing forward (same TCA as VCA) turns its VCA 2 hexspines to make an attack, paying DRM +4 for Case A. Is it allowed to turn then its TCA 1 hexspine to fire its MA at that same target with only DRM +1 for Case A? (In other words, he is changing TCA to fire at a target that he has already in his CA)

Kinky.

I don't know if it's legal but if it is it gets into the Sleaze Hall of Fame on the first vote.