Multiple TCA changes in the same phase

Shmitty008

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A turreted AFV changes it's TCA one hexspine to fire during the Defensive Fire Phase, retains rate, then changes back to the original TCA for an additional shot. C5.1 states that the AFV would ". . . incur a +1DRM penalty for each hexspine adjustment of their TCA during that fire phase." C5.12 says that the Case A DRM would not be applied unless the TCA changes again. Would the Case A DRM for the second shot from this AFV be +1 for a 1 hexspine TCA change, or would the +1 from the previous shot apply as well, making the total Case A DRM +2?

Jake
 

Robin Reeve

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You calculate the Case A DRM from scrap for each shot.
1st shot, 1 hexspine CA change : +1
2nd shot, another hexspine CA change : +1 (not +2) etc.
 

FourDeuceMF

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If you were to turn the TCA once to fire MA, retain rate, then turn back to fire MA again, THEN fire the CMG, you'd incur both the TCA change DRMs to that shot on the IFT...
 

Jazz

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If you were to turn the TCA once to fire MA, retain rate, then turn back to fire MA again, THEN fire the CMG, you'd incur both the TCA change DRMs to that shot on the IFT...
Are you sure? It isn't just the last CA change like with the MA?
 

Stewart

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Are you sure? It isn't just the last CA change like with the MA?
Penalties for each...
Otherwise you just fire CMG then the MA with no penalities.
HOWEVER, saying that the first shot could fire the CMG at a known unit, then the TCA could switch back ONLY paying the 1 TCA change.
 

klasmalmstrom

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If you were to turn the TCA once to fire MA, retain rate, then turn back to fire MA again, THEN fire the CMG, you'd incur both the TCA change DRMs to that shot on the IFT...
I am pretty sure you only incur the Case A DRM for the last change in this situation as well. One does not need to remember multiple TCA changes.

Are you sure? It isn't just the last CA change like with the MA?
I think it is.

D3.51:
"If, after firing, another turret-mounted weapon (or the MA which has retained a Multiple ROF) wishes to fire at another target outside the current TCA, the Case A TH DRM would be applicable based only on the move from the current TCA to the new TCA..."
 
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Sparafucil3

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HOWEVER, saying that the first shot could fire the CMG at a known unit, then the TCA could switch back ONLY paying the 1 TCA change.
Around these parts, we call that the Jazz sleaze. He may not be the first to use it or recognize it, but as I recall, he was the first to ask about it and suss out the potential. @Jazz knows all about this little trick, the bastard. -- jim
 

Jazz

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Around these parts, we call that the Jazz sleaze. He may not be the first to use it or recognize it, but as I recall, he was the first to ask about it and suss out the potential. @Jazz knows all about this little trick, the bastard. -- jim
Makes me misty just thinking about it...<sniff>

For the record, when I brought it up with Perry at ASLOK he had to think long & hard stroking his beard, so I suspect I might be one of, if not THE, first person to use this.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Mattias R. and I have used it in playtests of FrF scenarios - involving swirling tank battles with multiple involved vehicles, Gun Duel, both VCA and TCA changes - I am sure we might have played some of them incorrect as it was hard to keep track when a vehicle changes its VCA for 2nd and TCA for the 3rd time. :)
 

The Purist

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The D3.5 - 3.54 rules and example help explain the rule quite well. Shooting the MA 'resets' the "+" modifier to zero. Firing the AA/B/CMG does not.

We can add the 180 degree flip of a vehicle to fire a B/CMG at a tank, and thus realign the VCA, to the list of 'dufuq?' sleaze moves.

[credit to Tom Repetti for the term - 'defuq']
 

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The D3.5 - 3.54 rules and example help explain the rule quite well. Shooting the MA 'resets' the "+" modifier to zero. Firing the AA/B/CMG does not.

We can add the 180 degree flip of a vehicle to fire a B/CMG at a tank, and thus realign the VCA, to the list of 'dufuq?' sleaze moves.

[credit to Tom Repetti for the term - 'defuq']
The culmination of this sleaze is shooting a VCA only AAMG to do the same thing.
 

The Purist

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I believe that since most AAMG have no fixed arc (360 degree fire) the VCA cannot be changed in order to fire this weapon. The exception here are some AAMGs with fixed CA such as the StuG IIIG.
 

Eagle4ty

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I believe that since most AAMG have no fixed arc (360 degree fire) the VCA cannot be changed in order to fire this weapon. The exception here are some AAMGs with fixed CA such as the StuG IIIG.
Don't know why not. To change the VCA/TCA to bear on the target at the same time is not an uncommon practice, especially an ATG (matter of fact that's what you're taught).
 
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