PTO LOS question

[Will Fleming]

PTO (light) is in effect. Most marsh is swamp, level 2 ostacle.

Is this LOS clear? K4 to M7

 

[Pacman Ghost]

Is this LOS clear? K4 to M7

What would happen if it were woods? L6 wouldn't be a "woods hex", but even that tiny bit of woods graphic crossing the hex-side would be enough to block LOS, no?

 

[Robin Reeve]

What would happen if it were woods? L6 wouldn't be a "woods hex", but even that tiny bit of woods graphic crossing the hex-side would be enough to block LOS, no?

I would play it that way.

 

[Juan SantaX]

If you want a rule number and example, you can look at rule A6.1 and the B.1 example. It blocks LoS as Pacman and Robin said.

 

[Will Fleming]

G7.1 Whenever PTO Terrain (G.1) is in effect, each marsh hex that is adjacent to ≥ one jungle hex becomes a swamp hex. Swamp is treated as "non-flooded" (B16.6) marsh except as stated otherwise. The effects of a swamp Location are not altered by the water depth of a stream/river. Swamp is never considered to be a Hindrance or Open Ground, or river or mudflat terrain.

L6 is a pond hex correct? Wouldn't that be marsh in the art depictions there?

 

[Pacman Ghost]

Are you saying that that teensy, tiny bit of marsh in L6 doesn't become swamp because L6 is a pond hex, and the rules talk about a marsh hex? That's pretty pedantic, and coming from me, that's saying something :-/

M6 definitely is a swamp hex, and so would surely block LOS going down the length of its hexside. LOS needs to be clear on both sides of the thread, right...?

 

[Stewart]

B.1 sums it all up. NOTE: L6 is a depression water obstacle. L-1.
Swamp rises 2 levels as obstacle.
If hindrance, no Hindrance DRM, but that isn't the case here.

 

[Mister T]

LOS needs to be clear on both sides of the thread, right...?

The obstruction should be visible on both sides of the thread (EXC: inherent terrain). See A6.1

 

[Eagle4ty]

The obstruction should be visible on both sides of the thread (EXC: inherent terrain). See A6.1

And that's often a big difference, often not adhered to with VASL LOS.

 

[Robin Reeve]

And that's often a big difference, often not adhered to with VASL LOS.

Indeed.
Stringing LOS with VASL is a blurry thing.
Some players even get out the physical boards to verify when in doubt.

 

[MajorDomo]

I find it reasonable that any artwork Swamp that extended into another hex (in this case a pond hex) would still be Swamp and not become Marsh at the hex border.

At least that is how I would play it.

 

[bendizoid]

I find it reasonable that any artwork Swamp that extended into another hex (in this case a pond hex) would still be Swamp and not become Marsh at the hex border.

At least that is how I would play it.

I object, the swamp turns into a marsh. It’s a swampy marsh or a marshy swamp just a bit on the marshy side. Enough to remove its swampy nature and declare it a marsh.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The "problem" with artwork becoming marsh is that then the LOS is clear, I think - the Swamp is not visible on both sides of the LOS string (i.e., LOS is not blocked), and marsh is also not visible on both sides - LOS is not Hindered.

 

[von Marwitz]

The "problem" with artwork becoming marsh is that then the LOS is clear, I think - the Swamp is not visible on both sides of the LOS string (i.e., LOS is not blocked), and marsh is also not visible on both sides - LOS is not Hindered.

I think that is correct... Must be that little freaky, unexpected rivulet that runs in between the Jungle and the Swamp which you can shoot down along unhindered. Actually, I like the idea. Adds something unexpected. Probably, the situations in which this combinations does occur are pretty rare.

von Marwitz

 

[Eagle4ty]

The "problem" with artwork becoming marsh is that then the LOS is clear, I think - the Swamp is not visible on both sides of the LOS string (i.e., LOS is not blocked), and marsh is also not visible on both sides - LOS is not Hindered.

What? Are we still talking about the LOS from K4 to M7? The LOS is right down the hexside/centerdots. If it is considered Swamp/Marsh in L6 one would have to be using a tug-of-war rope for a LOS string to not have the art depiction be visible on both sides. If one assumes the artwork for Swamp/Marsh in L6 does not exist because it is a Stream hex the LOS must be open as the LOS runs down the hexside and the depiction that is actually there but isn't does not extend beyond the LOS string.

 

[Will Fleming]

So what is the call on this? I think a strict interpretation of the rules goes with Klas and the LOS being strangely clear and free of LOS hindrance, however that is hard to imagine.

Our game is now 'in the valley' and that LOS will affect a lot of shots and maybe some rout decisions.

 

[Stewart]

Something along the same lines...
Does the LOS exist from Y4 to Z2?

 

[Stewart]

Interesting....
Since the other hex is -1....the hindrance would be at the -1 level according to the rule.
Since its not a hill, the 10.1 rule doesn't seem to apply.

I'd say after looking at it again....the hindrance is at the lower level.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Something along the same lines...
Does the LOS exist from Y4 to Z2?

View attachment 15270

Yes, as spelled out in B10.2:
"[EXC: A unit may always trace a LOS through a Crest Line in an adjacent hex of lower elevation (15Y4 can fire through Y3 to Y2 and along the Y3-Z3 hexside to Z2 but it cannot fire through Z3 to AA3)] "

 

[klasmalmstrom]

What? Are we still talking about the LOS from K4 to M7? The LOS is right down the hexside/centerdots. If it is considered Swamp/Marsh in L6 one would have to be using a tug-of-war rope for a LOS string to not have the art depiction be visible on both sides.

The art depiction is visible on both sides - but if it's swamp in one hex and marsh in the other, then the same terrain-type isn't. That was my point.

Like e.g., if there was a hexside where grain touches the hexside from one hex, and woods from another - not that I think there any such hexes.