Critical hit question next edition of did we do this right?

Markdv5208

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OK a PzIII fires in the advancing fire phase at an adjacent hex. He is BU, and the infantry targets are in a trench.

Net to hit
Cases B, C +4. BU +1 Trench +2 adjacent -2 Final TH =3

He rolls a SNAKES

Ok so far so good
Curtis insisted at this point that he needed a 1-3 for the CH b/c that is less than half the TH and I insisted that the modified TH was a 3, so he needed a 1.

WHO was right? BTW, there were 4 INF targets in the hex, random selection hit the mortar crew he then threw a wiffleball and rolled a 9, MC 1 with the -2 for the trench and I rolled a 4 on the ensuing MC
 

Eagle4ty

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OK a PzIII fires in the advancing fire phase at an adjacent hex. He is BU, and the infantry targets are in a trench.

Net to hit
Cases B, C +4. BU +1 Trench +2 adjacent -2 Final TH =3

He rolls a SNAKES

Ok so far so good
Curtis insisted at this point that he needed a 1-3 for the CH b/c that is less than half the TH and I insisted that the modified TH was a 3, so he needed a 1.

WHO was right? BTW, there were 4 INF targets in the hex, random selection hit the mortar crew he then threw a wiffleball and rolled a 9, MC 1 with the -2 for the trench and I rolled a 4 on the ensuing MC
Final TH# is still an 8, what you are referring to is the Die Roll Modifiers NOT the TH# modifiers. Therefore he needs to roll a 1-4 subsequent dr because that would be less than or equal to half of the modified TH# (there being no modifications to the TH# in this instance) [C3.7 & C3.3].

[EDIT] I believe Curtis is mixing up the Less than half TH# for a CH when an original TH DR does not equal a 2 (usually needing a DR=1-3 when the final TH# is 8) and needing a subsequent dr less than or equal to half of the modified TH# when snake-eyes are the original TH DR.
 
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The Purist

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It is a crit with the original DR 2 and follow up dr

C3.7 Critical Hits: ...A CH also occurs while using the Infantry Target Type whenever the Final TH DR is < half the Modified TH# (3.3) , or on an Original TH DR of 2 followed by a subsequent dr of 1 or </= half of the Modified TH#.

I read that to state that if the Modified TH # is a 3 then it would be CH on a dr 1, a dr of 2 - 6 a regular hit.
 

Markdv5208

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It is a crit with the original DR 2 and follow up dr

C3.7 Critical Hits: ...A CH also occurs while using the Infantry Target Type whenever the Final TH DR is < half the Modified TH# (3.3) , or on an Original TH DR of 2 followed by a subsequent dr of 1 or </= half of the Modified TH#.

I read that to state that if the Modified TH # is a 3 then it would be CH on a dr 1, a dr of 2 - 6 a regular hit.

That is what I was saying UNFORTUNATELY Curtis has my numbers and I respect him enough to not argue about this

What says the hive mind? I've got one on my side.....
 

Pyth

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Along with the original 1,1 issue addressed above... I think you need to straighten out ; modified TH# vs. final TH roll. Curtis needed final TH roll half of the modified TH (I'll take Eagle's word for it that it is 8) ... but 1,1 isnt final roll. The final roll gets those DRM. You don't apply the DRM to the TH number. So Curtis rolled a 2 +4 +2 +1 -2... = a final TH roll of 7 which is a hit but not critical because not 1/2 the modified TH (of 8?).

However the orignal 2 triggers a different crit hit check.
 

Eagle4ty

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It is a crit with the original DR 2 and follow up dr

C3.7 Critical Hits: ...A CH also occurs while using the Infantry Target Type whenever the Final TH DR is < half the Modified TH# (3.3) , or on an Original TH DR of 2 followed by a subsequent dr of 1 or </= half of the Modified TH#.

I read that to state that if the Modified TH # is a 3 then it would be CH on a dr 1, a dr of 2 - 6 a regular hit.
I believe you are also mixing up Modifying the TH# and the DRMs. The only TH# modifiers are Gun type (*, L, LL) ammo type such as APCR/APDS, use of SMOKE, and gun size. The C5 modifiers CA change, range etc. are DRMs NOT TH# Modifiers.
 

lightspeed

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Along with the original 1,1 issue addressed above... I think you need to straighten out ; modified TH# vs. final TH roll. Curtis needed final TH roll half of the modified TH (I'll take Eagle's word for it that it is 8) ... but 1,1 isnt final roll. The final roll gets those DRM. You don't apply the DRM to the TH number. So Curtis rolled a 2 +4 +2 +1 -2... = a final TH roll of 7 which is a hit but not critical because not 1/2 the modified TH (of 8?).

However the orignal 2 triggers a different crit hit check.
This.

I would add that changes to TH numbers are found on the bottom half of the TH table on the Chapter C divider.
So, unless one is using SMOKE or firing at .geq. 13 hexes, then the black ITT TH number is an 8 (at range 0-6).

Damn! Ninja'd by Eagle4ty!

indy
 

The Purist

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I believe you are also mixing up Modifying the TH# and the DRMs. The only TH# modifiers are Gun type (*, L, LL) ammo type such as APCR/APDS, use of SMOKE, and gun size. The C5 modifiers CA change, range etc. are DRMs NOT TH# Modifiers.
Ahah!!! Right you are.

C4.0 - 4.5 notes modifier to the base TH #, not the TH DR. C5.0 - 6.0 notes how the Final TH # is achieved.

[I knew that once,.... should have read on in ol' C hapter C]
 
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