Japanese unit about to exit a tunnel in the Advance phase - but the exit hex is rubbled before it can exit.

[JoeArthur]

A Japanese unit has moved from its pillbox through the tunnel to a stone building location. It is under a sewer marker and waiting to exit in the advance phase. In the defensive fire phase OBA rubbles the exit building location. What happens to the unit?

We looked and per the sewer rules it must exit but presumably the exit was destroyed and so the unit is eliminated. Did we get it right?

Any help quoting the relevant rules would be appreciated please.

 

[Actionjick]

A Japanese unit has moved from its pillbox through the tunnel to a stone building location. It is under a sewer marker and waiting to exit in the advance phase. In the defensive fire phase OBA rubbles the exit building location. What happens to the unit?

We looked and per the sewer rules it must exit but presumably the exit was destroyed and so the unit is eliminated. Did we get it right?

Any help quoting the relevant rules would be appreciated please.

Joe you do come up with some interesting situations. Looking forward to seeing this answered. ?

 

[Robin Reeve]

B8.63 doesn't list Rubble as a means of destruction of a Tunnel.
B24.11 and 24.121 don't speak of Rubble destroying a Tunnel entrance.
Sewer rules are NA : the use of a Sewer counter doesn't mean that Tunnels follow Sewer rules in most aspects (B8.5 would not apply).
So I think that a Tunnel may be entered or exited in a Location where Rubble has been created.

 

[JoeArthur]

Robin,

Thank you for your help. You're logic is correct. It depends on whether the tunnel entrance is eliminated and nowhere in the rules does it say that it is...........at least nowhere that I can see.

 

[BattleSchool]

Based on O6.6, a Q&A may return a different answer, namely that, like a Manhole Location (B8.5), a tunnel entrance/exit ceases to exist in a Location that is rubbled during the course of play.

I'm surprised that this hasn't come up before. A quick look at the 2020 Q&A drew a blank.

Probably worth asking Perry for a ruling.

 

[JoeArthur]

Yay! I finally did it. A question for Perry Took long enough......................

 

[JoeArthur]

I have no idea how the system works. Do I ask Perry and if so how please?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Send an email at : asl_qa@multimanpublishing.com

 

[JoeArthur]

Send an email at : asl_qa@multimanpublishing.com

Many thanks Robin - email sent.

 

[Cpl Uhl]

My two cents, B24 (Rubble) states: A rubbled location is no longer a building Location and a building totally reduced to Rubble is no longer considered a building.

B8.6 (Tunnels) says that a Tunnel entrance must be "in separate ground level building, pillbox, brush or woods locations". If the building is Rubbled, it is no longer a building, hence there cannot be an entrance in it?

I mean I don't know, but just saying....

 

[JoeArthur]

I mean I don't know, but just saying....

What Cpl Uhl neglected to say was that it only went and happened again to me in a game with him?

 

[Actionjick]

My two cents, B24 (Rubble) states: A rubbled location is no longer a building Location and a building totally reduced to Rubble is no longer considered a building.

B8.6 (Tunnels) says that a Tunnel entrance must be "in separate ground level building, pillbox, brush or woods locations". If the building is Rubbled, it is no longer a building, hence there cannot be an entrance in it?

I mean I don't know, but just saying....

Nice reasoning!??

 

[aneil1234]

Nice reasoning!??

The reasoning is good per sae till you hit say Red Factories or the like where rubble is treated as a building
Then it opens a whole can of wormies

I look forward to an answer as well
Cause in my book the answer is not given in the "Great Book" and needs clarifying

 

[Stewart]

The reasoning is good per sae till you hit say Red Factories or the like where rubble is treated as a building
Then it opens a whole can of wormies

I look forward to an answer as well
Cause in my book the answer is not given in the "Great Book" and needs clarifying

6.6 RUBBLE: A RF Cellar Location can be rubbled like any other building Location. If a RF Cellar Location is rubbled, it and all other building Locations in that hex cease to exist and the appropriate Rubble counter is placed at ground level in that hex. All occupants, weapons, Tunnel-entrances/-exits and Manholes in that hex are eliminated,

 

[Cpl Uhl]

Ahhh, so we have, not a precedent but, a subsequent? Or afterthought maybe?

 

[Stewart]

B8.63 doesn't list Rubble as a means of destruction of a Tunnel.
B24.11 and 24.121 don't speak of Rubble destroying a Tunnel entrance.

B8.63 You are correct it doesn't "destroy" the Tunnel. It invalidates it.

You missed the first section on Rubble.

24.1 Rubble represents shattered remnants of a building and is represented by a ⅝" rubble counter which is brown if the building was wooden, or gray if it was stone. A rubbled Location is no longer a building Location and a building totally reduced to rubble is no longer considered a building.

8.6 TUNNELS:... The entrances must be in separate ground level building, pillbox, brush, or woods Locations.

The Location is no longer a building.

Pretty straightforward.

 

[JoeArthur]

OK if the building has gone, no tunnel exit, can the Japanese go back from where they came from? Not currently possible per the rules...........

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I am not sure the tunnel entrance is gone...I'd wait for the Q&A respone. I don't think the situation was considered when the rule were written back in 85.

 

[JoeArthur]

I'd wait for the Q&A respone.

Many thanks Klas. I have sent two emails out. One just after the game with Cpl Uhl - I could not believe it happened to me again!

Perry must be very busy or this is a tough one - no response yet. I hope he's OK...........

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think Perry may have some other things to do as well.