Can units that are about to be in melee gain control of a building?

boylermaker

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The Russians control building O9/P8/P9. Finns advance units into P8 and O9.

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During the CCPh, the Finnish player chooses to resolve P8 first. Both the Finns and the Russians are destroyed. The Finnish player then resolved O9: both the Finnish infantry and the Russian tank survive, and a melee forms in the hex.

Did the Finnish player gain control of building O9? It seems that he might have in the moment after P8 was resolved but before O9 was resolved. The vehicle in O9 will not prevent the Finns from taking control of the building, since it is in bypass, per A26.11.

@ppalma3010 and I couldn't see anything in the rule book that would prevent the Finns from doing so. The halfsquad in O9 isn't in melee yet, because he just advanced in and hasn't resolved CC yet, so I believe he is still good order and would gain control of the building.

It seems pretty weird to me, though, that if you resolved O9 first, and locked the Finnish squad in melee, then the same result in P8 would have led to the Russians keeping control of the building, since there would be no Good Order Finns left to take control.

Are we misunderstanding a rule?
 

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EagleIV

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The presence of the AFV prevents the Finnish HS from gaining control since the AFV is an "armed enemy ground unit (...) in that (...)building" (From the middle of A26.11).

And from the next paragraph "A non-bypassing armed vehilce (...) prevents the opponent from gaining Control of the (...)building".
 

Jazz

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Is the AFV in bypass? I know a vehicle in bypass cannot GAIN control. Not clear if a vehicle in VBM prevents gaining of control. NRBH

Confirmed....if the AFV is in bypass. it does not prevent the other side from gaining control of the building.

A26.11 "...An armed vehicle in bypass of a building prevents the opponent from gaining Control of the Location/hex, but not from gaining Control of the building. ..."

If in VBM the Finn gains building control.

If not VBM but in the building, the Finn has to kill the tank to gain control
 
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jcferrell

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"Control can be gained during the act of movement; a unit need not end a phase (or even survive Defensive First Fire) in the Location/hex/building to gain Control of it." A26.11.

Although this doesn't specifically address CC, I think the same principle applies in this case. Control is gained immediately upon the elimination of the Russian infantry. You do not need to wait until the end of the CCPh to determine who controls the building.
 

jcferrell

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A related question that I just thought of: What if there were no Finns in O9? Would the Finns still gain control immediately upon eliminating the Russians in CC, even if the Finns are also subsequently eliminated? Or would the a Russians still control the building because CC is "simultaneous"?
 

lightspeed

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A related question that I just thought of: What if there were no Finns in O9? Would the Finns still gain control immediately upon eliminating the Russians in CC, even if the Finns are also subsequently eliminated? Or would the a Russians still control the building because CC is "simultaneous"?
I think that simultaneity is the key here, in that the results of the CC are applied
simultaneously (EXC: ambush, prisoners, blah blah blah). I would say that in your
case (no Finns in O9) means the Russians get the building.

indy
 

Robin Reeve

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"Control can be gained during the act of movement; a unit need not end a phase (or even survive Defensive First Fire) in the Location/hex/building to gain Control of it." A26.11.

Although this doesn't specifically address CC, I think the same principle applies in this case. Control is gained immediately upon the elimination of the Russian infantry. You do not need to wait until the end of the CCPh to determine who controls the building.
As the CC was simultaneous, there is no moment when the Finnish unit is alone. It doesn't gain control of the hex "before" the Russian kills it.
 

boylermaker

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As the CC was simultaneous, there is no moment when the Finnish unit is alone. It doesn't gain control of the hex "before" the Russian kills it.
Robin, are you talking about the original question, or the version in which there are no Finns in O9?
 

Robin Reeve

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I think I missed the point. I was thinking of P8.
 

boylermaker

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I think that simultaneity is the key here, in that the results of the CC are applied
simultaneously (EXC: ambush, prisoners, blah blah blah). I would say that in your
case (no Finns in O9) means the Russians get the building.

indy
Yes, I agree with you (and Robin, I think), that if there were no Finns in O9, the building control would not change due to everyone dying in CC in P8.
 

Robin Reeve

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Yes, I agree with you (and Robin, I think), that if there were no Finns in O9, the building control would not change due to everyone dying in CC in P8.
That is what I awkwardly tried to explain.
 

Larry

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From A26.11

An armed vehicle in bypass of a building prevents the opponent from gaining Control of the Location/hex, but not from gaining Control of the building.
If the VC is building control, the Finns have it. If the VC is control of every location in those building hexes, the vehicle in bypass keeps control of the location.
 
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