Concealment Loss bump

[Ric of The LBC]

Does reveal mean loss of concealment for that defending unit?

 

[Eagle4ty]

Does reveal mean loss of concealment for that defending unit? View attachment 13793

Yes, it is permanently revealed as opposed to temporarily revealed as spelled out in other rules to differentiate the effects (e.g. a friendly unit may temporarily lose concealment to strip concealment on a moving enemy unit but immediately regains concealment after verification of a real unit with LOS to the moving unit).

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Yes, it is permanently revealed as opposed to temporarily revealed as spelled out in other rules to differentiate the effects (e.g. a friendly unit may temporarily lose concealment to strip concealment on a moving enemy unit but immediately regains concealment after verification of a real unit with LOS to the moving unit).

Thanks. The Concealment Chart is clearer

 

[fenyan]

No one's bump-stripped you yet Ric?

 

[Ric of The LBC]

No one's bump-stripped you yet Ric?

I have but apparently Guy hadn't. He questioned the tactic so we looked in the text of the rules, not so clear until looking at the Concealment Chart. He is not happy about me vehicle bypass freezing him then bump stripping 3 hexes and bump stripping a 4th in the same turn.

 

[von Marwitz]

I have but apparently Guy hadn't. He questioned the tactic so we looked in the text of the rules, not so clear until looking at the Concealment Chart. He is not happy about me vehicle bypass freezing him then bump stripping 3 hexes and bump stripping a 4th in the same turn.

Trying to wrap my head around this:

So you are saying that an AFV bypassing a hex will force a temporary revelation of one concealed enemy unit in a hex even if not ending its MPh in that hex, thus eliminating any Dummy. On top of that, the AFV would repeat the process several times during a single MPh.

Did I get this right?

von Marwitz

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Trying to wrap my head around this:

So you are saying that an AFV bypassing a hex will force a temporary revelation of one concealed enemy unit in a hex even if not ending its MPh in that hex, thus eliminating any Dummy. On top of that, the AFV would repeat the process several times during a single MPh.

Did I get this right?

von Marwitz

No, no.

I AFV bypassed one hex and stopped. A squad came up and bumped. Not knowing that the concealment would have been stripped anyway at the end of the MPh by the stopped AFV.

I did this to 2 other hexes in this same turn.

 

[Genosse Gelb]

Did I read that correctly? You only have to reveal ONE unit? Say, I have a leader and a squad, both concealed. The enemy bumps into me, I may then reveal the Squad ONLY? And then go on t fire without the leader direction? Is that correct?

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Did I read that correctly? You only have to reveal ONE unit? Say, I have a leader and a squad, both concealed. The enemy bumps into me, I may then reveal the Squad ONLY? And then go on t fire without the leader direction? Is that correct?

I think it is Random Selection on which unit is revealed if there are more than 2 in a hex on the bump. Not sure on the bypass freeze and end of MPh.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Not sure on the bypass freeze and end of MPh.

All units in the bypassed Location lose concealment in this case.

 

[von Marwitz]

Did I read that correctly? You only have to reveal ONE unit? Say, I have a leader and a squad, both concealed. The enemy bumps into me, I may then reveal the Squad ONLY? And then go on t fire without the leader direction? Is that correct?

Which unit you reveal is determined by Random Selection. So it could be either the Leader, the Squad or both. Most likely only one of them.

If you get bump-scouted that does not inhibit your fire in any way. You are not required to fire at all at the unit that attempted to enter your hex. You may fire the squad only. You may fire the squad leader-directed. Say RS determined the squad to lose Concealment but your Leader retains it, you could just fire the squad undirected while your Leader still remains Concealed. If you want to fire your squad with leader-direction, then - of course - the leader would also lose Concealment due to participating in the attack.

von Marwitz

 

[Genosse Gelb]

ah, I missed the RS part, thanks!!

 

[Pyth]

Ok a few more bump scout Q's...

1. How does bump scouting with a concealed unit work? ( and is bump scouting with a dummy NA/makes the dummy vanish before anything is learned?)... When bump scouting with a concealed unit do you have to reveal that a real unit is doing the scouting? and if so at what point in the process....

2nd.... bump scouting with a Cloaked unit.... any difference between that and bumping with a concealed unit (I think not).

(*im sure I knew the answers to this at one point....but it hasn't come up in awhile and Ive forgotten)

 

[aneil1234]

1/ Concealed unit
concealment is lost case A
about the 4th item on the list is is forced back to its last location via detection (A12.15)
so I can still unit that has found something is forced back to its previous hex and losers concealment

2/ cloaked unit (and assume you're talking at night) - the night will say that you lose concealment and/or cloaking when you enter an enemy units location
so again, you lose your lid

 

[Russ Isaia]

Which unit you reveal is determined by Random Selection. So it could be either the Leader, the Squad or both. Most likely only one of them.

If you get bump-scouted that does not inhibit your fire in any way. You are not required to fire at all at the unit that attempted to enter your hex. You may fire the squad only. You may fire the squad leader-directed. Say RS determined the squad to lose Concealment but your Leader retains it, you could just fire the squad undirected while your Leader still remains Concealed. If you want to fire your squad with leader-direction, then - of course - the leader would also lose Concealment due to participating in the attack.

von Marwitz

Yep, RS. And there it is in the RB, half a column away from its relevance and separated from its relevance by numerous other rules of independent significance. To COWTRA, add DSRUPE -- "Don't stop reading until the paragraph ends."

 

[Eagle4ty]

I think it is Random Selection on which unit is revealed if there are more than 2 in a hex on the bump. Not sure on the bypass freeze and end of MPh.

Regards on a bypass vehicle and concealment loss: the unit(s) being bypassed would lose their concealment at the the end of the bypassing vehicle's MPh if it remained there in bypass status and not at the end of "the" MPh.

 

[aneil1234]

Regards on a bypass vehicle and concealment loss: the unit(s) being bypassed would lose their concealment at the the end of the bypassing vehicle's MPh if it remained there in bypass status and not at the end of "the" MPh.

But if they only pass through............................. nothing happens
You have to end that vehicles MPh there for it to count - Obvs

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Regards on a bypass vehicle and concealment loss: the unit(s) being bypassed would lose their concealment at the the end of the bypassing vehicle's MPh if it remained there in bypass status and not at the end of "the" MPh.

Oh, at the end of It's MPh not The MPh. So there was no need to also bump him.

Got it.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Oh, at the end of It's MPh not The MPh. So there was no need to also bump him.

Chart and rule was in conflict at one time. One said "the" the other "its".

ASL Journal 10 errata:
A12.42: line 5, replace “end the MPh” with “end its MPh”.

 

[von Marwitz]

But if they only pass through............................. nothing happens
You have to end that vehicles MPh there for it to count - Obvs

The same is true for Infantry units bypassing a concealed enemy unit. The bypassing unit does not get bumped even if the concealed unit does drop its concealment when the bypasser has entered its hex. To block passage, this would have to be done before entry. See more details in this thread.

I think that many people are not aware of this. I only realized this not too long ago.

von Marwitz