Some Dinant LOS questions

[Oberst Hausser]

The board has a LOT of height variation which leads to a lot of "in the air" LOS situations.

First of the ramp is to know the extent of the first.



Can someone please tell the height of each different colour .....

2) Do you need to be adjacent to the river to see "into" the river in a G hex?

3) Is JJ39 KK40 bocage ?

4) Are hexes XX44, 45 46 playable (1/2 hexes)

Next



What is the red/white bar?

If FF40 is level 4 what elevation effects are in play per ATG? What is the closest hex facing the river it could shoot at?

What are the red circles in WW47 etc?

Thanks. its a lot to take in...

 

[gamesmeister]

Can someone please tell the height of each different colour .....

B21 = 5, L21 = 4, BB21 = 3, FF21 = 2, GG20 = 1, JJ19 = 0 (i.e. ground), OO20 = -1

2) Do you need to be adjacent to the river to see "into" the river in a G hex?
This will follow the same rules as any LOS across a crest line, so from level 0 then yes, you'll need to be adjacent, but level 1 (e.g. upstairs in KK24) will allow you to see into the river, barring any blind hexes created by the range to the crest line.

3) Is JJ39 KK40 bocage ?
No, it's a retaining wall, DN2.62

4) Are hexes XX44, 45 46 playable (1/2 hexes)
Yes but see below as they all have the red circles

What is the red/white bar?
I guess it's the parapet around the citadel, but it's covered in DN2.221. Basically, it gives protection to units on the roof of the citadel for any fire that crosses the red/white bar

If FF40 is level 4 what elevation effects are in play per ATG? What is the closest hex facing the river it could shoot at?
Don't understand this question. FF40 (level 4) can see into LL40, and it can see over LL40 onto the far bank, as LL40 is only a lvl 1.5 obstacle.

What are the red circles in WW47 etc?
They are restricted Citadel Hill hexes (see DN2.61). Basically only an SMC/radio can enter/set up in those hexes with a red dot.

 

[boylermaker]

Note that the level of each color is given on the board edges.

 

[Carln0130]

Note that the level of each color is given on the board edges.

Commentary on both posts are accurate. Thank you boilermaker and gamemiester.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Note that the level of each color is given on the board edges.

Which one can refer to only if one has the module

 

[boylermaker]

Ah, I had forgotten that the numbers aren't on the VASL board.

 

[pensatl1962]

Which one can refer to only if one has the module

Exactly!

 

[gamesmeister]

Ah, I had forgotten that the numbers aren't on the VASL board.

They are

 

[The Purist]

I did the LOS test using the dice and thread for a number of hexes on the Dinant map because of the riverside buildings (mainly 1.5 level rowhouses).

IE: If you check LOS between Level 4 in FF39 and Level -1 in LL36 you will find a "natural" 2 blind hexes. The thread makes a perfectly straight line to the third hex behind LL36. You then add 1 hex for the Hill Crest rule (5-9 hexes add +1 blind hex to lower elevations. The Level 4 hex FF39 is 3 levels above the Rowhouse in LL36 so 2 blind hexes are reduced. This would mean that hex MM36 is a blind hex to the level 4 hexes to the west.

Important to know for boat traffic. The ElRR to the north has similar issues with level 3 and 4 hexes to the west above Bouvignes-sur Meuse and the road immediately behind the RR as well as the most westerly water hexes of the Meuse.

The dice test is quite effective and checking 3D LOS.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Can someone please tell the height of each different colour .....

B21 = 5, L21 = 4, BB21 = 3, FF21 = 2, GG20 = 1, JJ19 = 0 (i.e. ground), OO20 = -1

2) Do you need to be adjacent to the river to see "into" the river in a G hex?
This will follow the same rules as any LOS across a crest line, so from level 0 then yes, you'll need to be adjacent, but level 1 (e.g. upstairs in KK24) will allow you to see into the river, barring any blind hexes created by the range to the crest line.

3) Is JJ39 KK40 bocage ?
No, it's a retaining wall, DN2.62

4) Are hexes XX44, 45 46 playable (1/2 hexes)
Yes but see below as they all have the red circles

What is the red/white bar?
I guess it's the parapet around the citadel, but it's covered in DN2.221. Basically, it gives protection to units on the roof of the citadel for any fire that crosses the red/white bar

If FF40 is level 4 what elevation effects are in play per ATG? What is the closest hex facing the river it could shoot at?
Don't understand this question. FF40 (level 4) can see into LL40, and it can see over LL40 onto the far bank, as LL40 is only a lvl 1.5 obstacle.

What are the red circles in WW47 etc?
They are restricted Citadel Hill hexes (see DN2.61). Basically only an SMC/radio can enter/set up in those hexes with a red dot.

Always helps the read the rules when contemplating playing.

 

[gamesmeister]

IE: If you check LOS between Level 4 in FF39 and Level -1 in LL36 you will find a "natural" 2 blind hexes. The thread makes a perfectly straight line to the third hex behind LL36. You then add 1 hex for the Hill Crest rule (5-9 hexes add +1 blind hex to lower elevations. The Level 4 hex FF39 is 3 levels above the Rowhouse in LL36 so 2 blind hexes are reduced. This would mean that hex MM36 is a blind hex to the level 4 hexes to the west.

Wouldn't MM36 always be a blind hex, as height over an intervening object can only ever reduce the number of blind hexes to a minimum of one?

 

[The Purist]

Yes it does. I see now that here in the morning I wasn't clear enough (it seemed so last night when typing).

Edit: Assuming that each level in ASL is a uniform change in height then the reduction in blind hexes for >+1 elevation above an block is not always logical when looking at "true" LOS.

In the example of FF39 to LL36 the number blind hexes should actually be four hexes without any reduction in blind hexes. Reducing the blind hexes to three hexes "bends" the threads so that the LOS would actually go through building in LL36. Only at two hex range to LL36 is a Level 4 observer faced with only one blind hex but this increases the farther the observer moves away from the obstacle.

Up north at EE22 to the ElRR at LL18 (range 8) the actual LOS would have 3 blind hexes without reduction. Reducing it to one hex for the two additional elevations would have the LOS pass directly through the embankment.

If one includes the -1/0 river crestline (adding a level to the calculation) then the "true" LOS and blind hexes increase further, blocking almost all of the river even from level 4 to the west. Only where there are no buildings or ElRR along the river between a level 4 observer and a target hex are there 'true' LOS to mid and east river hexes.

If the elevation level changes are uniform a cross index chart would have been better than the 4 hex range brackets for calculating blind hexes.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

A ATG in FF40 (level 3) or AFV if different will have elevation problems as pointing down is not generally done. The cliff is in fact huge.

KK 40 and 41 for example would be NOT in LOS.

Do multi hex buildings (with or without a row bar) all have 1st levels? ( eg LL40, 41)

Can AFV use the HD rule in a trench? Is there any bore sighting allowed?

Thanks

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Oh my gosh. You mean the VASL board is LOS accurate !!

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Always helps the read the rules when contemplating playing.

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to remember the clearance DR and portage capacity and the OBA effects as well.

 

[Carln0130]

View attachment 13597

A ATG in FF40 (level 3) or AFV if different will have elevation problems as pointing down is not generally done. The cliff is in fact huge.

KK 40 and 41 for example would be NOT in LOS.

Do multi hex buildings (with or without a row bar) all have 1st levels? ( eg LL40, 41)

Can AFV use the HD rule in a trench? Is there any bore sighting allowed?

Thanks


View attachment 13598

The French have no AFV'S on map at the start of the CG, therefore none can set up in a Trench. Since the trench rules specifically do not allow vehicles to move beneath a trench, this question is DOA.

All multi-hex buildings are as per the normal rules except as otherwise stated, just like always.

A cliff always creates a 1 hex blind hex foring through it from higher elevation unless the firer's hex shares said cliff hexside.

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Yes but can they set up in a trench from a previous finished game. Not as entry.

I'm going to take the building q as a yes. That's a lot of problems for the German.

 

[gamesmeister]

Yes but can they set up in a trench from a previous finished game. Not as entry.

No, for the same reason they can't set up in a water hex, or the first floor of a building, or any other prohibited location

 

[Oberst Hausser]

OK so that cunning plan is out the window.