Guard goes berserk during MPh

[Andy Bagley]

20.4 ... Any berserk unit in the same Location with prisoners, whether guarding them or not, will at the start of that fire phase eliminate those prisoners (thereby losing their berserk status)."

15.46 RETURN TO NORMAL: A berserk unit loses its berserk status and returns to Good Order whenever it (or the group it attacks with) eliminates all (but at least one) Known enemy units in its Location with either TPBF (halved) or FT during the AFPh or CC, or if at the end of a charge there is no Known enemy unit in its LOS (15.431).

The berserk unit has no choice, it must kill all the prisoners in their location. It it doesn't kill all, the unit cannot lose berserk status.

Yep. "at the start of that fire phase". My original question was about what happens if the guarding unit becomes berserk during its MPh.

 

[von Marwitz]

Yep. "at the start of that fire phase". My original question was about what happens if the guarding unit becomes berserk during its MPh.

Well, think a bit Hollywood:

We know from the rules that the Zerkers will kill the Prisoners 'as if using a SW'. They can't do that during the MPh.
Zerkers will still not be so kind as to let the prisoners run away just to charge others. Illogical. So what happens?

The Berserkers will use the Prisoners as a 'Human Shield', i.e. they have to participate in the charge that has been triggered by the Guards becoming Berserk during their MPh. During the Charge, the Zerkers will likely get shot at - along with their 'Human Shields' which they drive before them. If the Zerkers are capable of entering an enemy-occupied hex (and they and the Prisoners survive all this), then they can fire TBPF/halved during their AFPh (not yet in Melee) and at this point, the 'Human Shields' - being of no use to cover the approach any longer - are massacred 'as if using a SW', i.e. the same way as the Berserkers could use a LMG they carry during the charge.

If only a Zerker-HS Guard with Prisoners survives, then it has to decide to either 'use a SW' (i.e. massacring the Prisoners) or firing their Inherent FP vs. the other enemy units in the same hex. Likely, they will select the 'massacre' as being a Guard in CC is not favorable as a HS and also make CC sequential in favor of the Prisoners.

I think this is a pretty solid solution to address all possible situations that would work within the general logic of the rules (even if not explicitely covered) and also makes sense based on 'real-life' - erm - 'arguments'.

von Marwitz

 

[dlazov]

What I said all along with my reality argument.

 

[Larry]

During the MPh, we lose control of zerkers. They stop in place and massacre in the AFPh. They return to normal and can fire inherent FP subject to normal restrictions.

 

[bendizoid]

I saw that, and as always the problem I have is how to get there from words of the rule. "[A]s if using a SW" does not say there are exceptions to the hypothetical nature of the exercise and mentions only one consequence from the hypothetical exercise: death of the prisoners.

But I get it: them's the rules/official interpretations. And in future I'll include a prisoner in my quality officer kill stack, particularly if Russian or otherwise particularly susceptible to going to Berserk (not clear if he needs a hypothetical SW to engage in the hypothetical firing resulting the actual massacre and actual Prep Fire/First Fire/Defensive Fire/Adv Fire counter). Of course, actual here "under the rules".

Moot, if you got that many prisoners you’ve probably already won. Also, any ‘vaccination’ from berserk a prisoner allegedly provides will also cause other serious problems if they happen to break instead of going berserk which is like 30 times more likely.

 

[bendizoid]

Best thing prisoners provide (besides double VCs) is the ability to insta deploy.

 

[mgmasl]

And absorb the 1KIA or K/1 side of the result.. if one guard and two HS prisoners -easy by automatically deploying a squad prisoner- a 33% to survive with a lesser result adding CVP for prisoners killed by friendly fire

 

[bendizoid]

I think if one gets absorbed in the minutia of all the probabilities the larger focus is lost. Make the right move and go with the flow.

 

[von Marwitz]

I think if one gets absorbed in the minutia of all the probabilities the larger focus is lost.

What kind of advice is that supposed to be, presented to the bunch of war-game nerds that we are?! ??

And while we are at it:



von Marwitz