Final Fire & ROF

Toby Pilling

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
193
Reaction score
207
Location
Didcot
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Say I have a squad, leader and HMG. In the movement phase, my opponent moves a unit adjacent to them and I First Fire the stack, leader directed. I keep ROF, so mark the squad as First Fired but don't mark the HMG. After the movement phase, in the Final Fire phase, I opt to fire the stack again at the same adjacent unit and keep ROF again. The squad can't fire again, but can the HMG? I thought it could but was told it can't, as the squad is now marked with a Final Fire counter.
 

mgmasl

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
4,285
Reaction score
337
Location
Cadiz
First name
Miguel
Country
llSpain
I’ve been told the same in last games.. they say SQ using SFF or FF disallow further ROF with the manned HMG... because in this case BOTH are marked with a Final Fire counter..
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,778
Reaction score
7,203
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
SFF by the squad definately marks the HMG Final Fire - that is clear from the rules I believe.
But in the DFPh, I think they are marked individually.
 
Last edited:

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
I think you just dont add inherent and MG in DefFire phase and keep rolling low with the colour dice. If you add both, I think you lose the ROF

But Im not sure, just thinking a bit...
 

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
8.41 MULTIPLE ROF: Any Multiple-ROF weapon which is not marked with a First, Final, Intensive or No Fire counter (even though it may have fired during First Fire) is still entitled to multiple attack possibilities during Final Fire, and at any target, not just adjacent ones. Any weapon marked with a First Fire counter and capable of Intensive Fire (C5.6) or Sustained Fire (9.3) may use such for one additional attack during Final Fire only vs adjacent or same-hex targets.


As usual, Klas was right
 
Last edited:

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
In SFF..
8.3

....Whenever a unit uses Subsequent First Fire, it must use all MG/IFE in its possession (up to the unit's normal operation capabilities; 7.35-.353) as Subsequent First Fire or forfeit their use for the remainder of that Player Turn (barring FPF); a squad may not split its usable inherent FP from that of its MG/IFE during Subsequent First Fire unless it opts to not use the remaining FP/SW at all. A Multiple-ROF weapon cannot be fired more than once per Subsequent First Fire attack. If a unit, or any SW/Gun it possesses, uses Subsequent First Fire (or Intensive Fire) then that unit and all its SW/Guns are marked with a Final Fire COUNTER.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
871
Reaction score
35
Location
Oz
Country
llAustralia
That is just too easy. A MG that retains ROF does not even first fire. Insofar that it is not bound by anything.

There may be a issue with CA (building) in there ...
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
871
Reaction score
35
Location
Oz
Country
llAustralia
In SFF..
8.3

....Whenever a unit uses Subsequent First Fire, it must use all MG/IFE in its possession (up to the unit's normal operation capabilities; 7.35-.353) as Subsequent First Fire or forfeit their use for the remainder of that Player Turn (barring FPF); a squad may not split its usable inherent FP from that of its MG/IFE during Subsequent First Fire unless it opts to not use the remaining FP/SW at all. A Multiple-ROF weapon cannot be fired more than once per Subsequent First Fire attack. If a unit, or any SW/Gun it possesses, uses Subsequent First Fire (or Intensive Fire) then that unit and all its SW/Guns are marked with a Final Fire COUNTER.
He is not doing this. The MG has ROF. It is not bound by this (SFF) at all. It could fire 100 times if it retains this.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,778
Reaction score
7,203
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
He is not doing this. The MG has ROF. It is not bound by this (SFF) at all. It could fire 100 times if it retains this.
If the unit manning a MG (that has ROF) uses Subsequent First Fire - that MG will also be marked Final Fire after the SFF attack (regardless of whether the MG is included in the SFF attack or not).
 

aneil1234

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
451
Reaction score
164
Location
an Aussie in Falmouth, Cornwall
Country
llUnited Kingdom
No he wont, A8.3 Use SFF, have NO RoF on any weapon as Unit and SW are marked Final fire................ and that's it
They are forfit their use for the rest of the ""Player Turn""
 

priorsj

Recruit
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingston upon Thames
Country
ll
This is already answered by a Q&a in the perry sez sub folder. I will post it here now in a sec as I have a follow on question to it.
 

priorsj

Recruit
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingston upon Thames
Country
ll
During the defensive fire phase, a squad&mmg want to make fire attacks. The squad (only) is marked with a def first fire counter.The wording of the rule A8.4 does not make clear the process of making fire attacks and placing counters when sw are in play.
Is it legal for the squad to fire his mmg at full fp vs a non-ADJACENT unit and then (provided it didn’t cower) have the squad use final fire at an ADJACENT unit? Would the answer be different if the situation was reversed? ( Mmg only is marked with a first fire counter, squad fires at non adjacent unit and then mmg final fires @ adjacent unit.
Yes.
No.
....Perry
MMP
 

priorsj

Recruit
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingston upon Thames
Country
ll
But I wanted to know then....
Now suppose the squad and MG were directed by an 8-1 leader for the first fire shot as a FG.
Would that same leader be able to direct both of these allowed final fire shots?
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
So it’s clear they are independent in final fire even if one is marked as final fire
Only when one is marked with a First Fire counter. Per A8.3 last sentence, when either the inherent or a possessed SW is marked with Final Fire counter during the enemy MPh, all capabilities are also, even if they didn't participate in that attack. The different capabilities are not entirely independent.

JR
 
Last edited:

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
Now suppose the squad and MG were directed by an 8-1 leader for the first fire shot as a FG.
Would that same leader be able to direct both of these allowed final fire shots?
If the inherent and the MG were not fired as a firegroup, i.e. one was fired at one target and the other at a second, the leader can direct only one of the attacks. A7.53 says, "Leader direction used during Defensive First Fire can be used again in Subsequent First Fire, FPF, or Final Fire, but again only for one firing unit/SW or FG—and that unit/SW/FG can only include firers he directed during First Fire; if forming a new FG or using different SW during that Player Turn, the leader cannot direct its fire."

JR
 
Top