Red Oct CG3

Honza

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The sure way to balance RO CG III is to reduce the number of CG dates. The same with ABtF CG III. In principle the CGs look like fun, but they probably drag on too long for the defender to stand any chance of winning and for the defender to endure the punishment he is getting.
 

FMFCB

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How do you guys feel about designs which emphasize the historical accuracy of the situation over the competitive balance of the game? Would you play such a scenario or CG?
I might play it once but it would be hard to get me to play it again. And I don't think I would want to buy something I would never play a second time!
 

Eagle4ty

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Whatever happened to playing to discover historical insights?
Historical insights are fine but we are subject to the vagaries of the designer's interpretations of these events and limits of their game design. As Mark, Michael, jrv & others have intimated, it is the designers responsibility (yes, responsibility) to present a workable game mechanic to present a competitive experience based upon his perception of historical events. JMHO
 

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When this was brought up during the play tests the designer replied to me, “the Germans lost, didn’t they?”
That particular CG is supposed to make the German player feel the despair that their actual counterparts did. A 50/50 chance of ‘victory’ was not the goal. Cut off with no help coming and ultimate destruction looming.
Not necessarily my design philosophy, but it’s how it was meant to be by the designer.
Are you saying the CG game was released as unbalanced? That would be disturbing if so.

JR
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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Historical insights are fine but we are subject to the vagaries of the designer's interpretations of these events and limits of their game design. As Mark, Michael, jrv & others have intimated, it is the designers responsibility (yes, responsibility) to present a workable game mechanic to present a competitive experience based upon his perception of historical events. JMHO
So. You say it's dead. Okay.
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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Are you saying the CG game was released as unbalanced? That would be disturbing if so.

JR
How many battles of a forlorn nature have been made into games? I've played many, including ASL scenarios, where one side was deemed unwinnable. I found no feeling of loss, or cheat, at the fact, just the desire to perhaps improve on the historical result. Embraced the challenge, as it were, regardless of the outcome.

I've never felt the slightest desire to chase the laughable concept of 'balance' especially since the sheer number of variables make it a fools' errand.

I prefer interesting, intrigue.
 

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How many battles of a forlorn nature have been made into games? I've played many, including ASL scenarios, where one side was deemed unwinnable. I found no feeling of loss, or cheat, at the fact, just the desire to perhaps improve on the historical result. Embraced the challenge, as it were, regardless of the outcome.

I've never felt the slightest desire to chase the laughable concept of 'balance' especially since the sheer number of variables make it a fools' errand.

I prefer interesting, intrigue.
At a guess...you drink Dos Equis? Bien Provecho.
 

Yuri0352

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How many battles of a forlorn nature have been made into games? I've played many, including ASL scenarios, where one side was deemed unwinnable.
This sounds like a description of Lone Canuck's 'Hell's Highway' HASL, which in my playing experience seems to be absolutely un-winnable for the allied player. Apart from the incredible deluge of Panthers and German halftracks in the CG, the module appears to otherwise do a decent job of portraying a failed allied campaign.

I prefer the historical accuracy aspects of ASL more so than 'balance considerations', however I have never really enjoyed playing any of the scenarios (from any designer) which are based upon Operation Market-Garden.
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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This sounds like a description of Lone Canuck's 'Hell's Highway' HASL, which in my playing experience seems to be absolutely un-winnable for the allied player. Apart from the incredible deluge of Panthers and German halftracks in the CG, the module appears to otherwise do a decent job of portraying a failed allied campaign.

I prefer the historical accuracy aspects of ASL more so than 'balance considerations', however I have never really enjoyed playing any of the scenarios (from any designer) which are based upon Operation Market-Garden.
I'd say, "maybe I'm just a bit off-center" but I think that train left the station a long, long time ago, but I get a kick out of Market Garden, Gettysburg, Borodino, Waterloo, the Bulge Stalingrad...
 

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I'd say, "maybe I'm just a bit off-center" but I think that train left the station a long, long time ago, but I get a kick out of Market Garden, Gettysburg, Borodino, Waterloo, the Bulge Stalingrad...
I haven't played any games based upon Borodino or Waterloo, although I am certainly interested in doing so. I've played and been fascinated by any games portraying Gettysburg, the Bulge or Stalingrad, and would happily play any of them again. Market-Garden, if it is to be in any way historically accurate, requires certain restrictions upon the allied player which will inevitably influence the game's play. The drive towards the drop zones by the British armor on the narrow highway being a prime example. Dropping the Polish paratroops in to a lost cause being another. Market-Garden is certainly a fascinating campaign to study and read about, but from a purely ASL/gaming standpoint, if just doesn't 'float my boat'. I wouldn't have any interest in playing an HASL about the fall of Singapore either.
 

Honza

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I must admit I know nothing about the ACW. It may be something that I look into. Gettysburg was a decisive victory was it?
 

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I must admit I know nothing about the ACW. It may be something that I look into. Gettysburg was a decisive victory was it?
The battle terminated Lee's invasion of the North. It did not decide the Civil War, which went on for almost two more years with many major battles. So whether you it was decisive depends upon which decision you are considering.

JR
 

Honza

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Was the battle very unbalanced? I know the Confederates were generally outnumbered and outgunned.
 

jrv

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Was the battle very unbalanced? I know the Confederates were generally outnumbered and outgunned.
A properly-led Union Army probably should have beaten a properly-led Confederate Army in the circumstances. But in battle things often don't go like the numbers say they should. The Union lost at Chancellorsville, when by objective measures they were stronger. Similarly the Germans smashed the Soviets in 1941, and purely by the numbers that should not have happened.

JR
 

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Was the battle very unbalanced? I know the Confederates were generally outnumbered and outgunned.
It was a meeting engagement and on the first day the Confederates significantly outnumbered the Union. But this is rather offtopic.
 

jrv

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It was a meeting engagement and on the first day the Confederates significantly outnumbered the Union.
If the Union had been chased off the field on the first day it probably wouldn't have been the Battle of Gettysburg.

But this is rather offtopic.
You must be new here. Welcome! We're sure glad to have you join us!

JR
 
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