Missing Counter Series: The Lost Acquisition Counters

[jrv]

Blood Reef: Tarawa contained counters for Japanese 50mm SW mortars with IDs "K" through "X" but no acquisition counters with similar IDs. :-(

JR
previous in series

 

[jrv]

I have also found Japanese 50mm MTRs "G", "H" and "I". I don't see these on the unpunched BRT that I have, so I don't know where they came from nor if there are more ("J" would have been nice to find). And I found Soviet 50mm MTRs "H" - "M". I don't have any idea where they came from. No wonder this game is so hard to play.

JR

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

They also egregiously missed the chance to introduce SNLF counters (5-4-8)...

 

[jrv]

They also egregiously missed the chance to introduce SNLF counters (5-4-8)...

I don't think the SNLF were that good. Although sometimes referred to as "Japanese Marines," from what I understand they weren't exactly shock/assault troops but relatively light units that took that old Japanese Bushido thing to heart. I don't think they were armed with any weapons that would give them assault fire or spraying fire. Probably 4-4-8 is a good rating. Per this page, "the Japanese Navy did not regard the SNLF as elite forces, but simply as sailors assigned to ground combat duty." They tended to do what Japanese units do when faced with heavy firepower, i.e. die a lot, for instance when landing on Wake.

JR

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

Double check the kit of the SNLF on Betio and get back to me.

 

[Justiciar]

"DISLIKE"

Double check the reference you didn't site so JR could double check youI The game is not cat and mouse I hide my evidence so I can make make claims you can't figure out...the game is played.... here is why I said what I said and here is the proof. We don't operate by Stalinesque means. You are better than that.

 

[jrv]

Double check the kit of the SNLF on Betio and get back to me.

As far as I can tell they are armed with the same bolt action Type 38 rifle that everyone else used, supporting the ubiquitous Type 99 light machine gun. Nothing that would suggest assault fire or spraying fire. The Japanese don't seem to have a sub-machinegun or semi-automatic rifle that they used in any numbers. Their paratroops (at least some of which were SNLF units, but not the ones on Tarawa) seem to have had some. The Americans, on the other hand, had upgraded from the M1903 Springfield to the M1 Garand.

As for underscoring the ML, when playing BRT I think I'd rather ELR if they would become two broken halfsquads instead. But the behavior for having underscored ML is not defined for the Japanese with step-reducing, probably because they have no units with underscored ML.

JR

 

[jrv]

So I don't think I'd like 5-4-8 counters for BRT. What I would really like would be 5∕8-inch acquisition counters with IDs "G" through "X" so I can use my millions of extra 50mm MTR counters that came with the module (and possibly from something else).

JR

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

"DISLIKE"

Double check the reference you didn't site so JR could double check youI The game is not cat and mouse I hide my evidence so I can make make claims you can't figure out...the game is played.... here is why I said what I said and here is the proof. We don't operate by Stalinesque means. You are better than that.

Had a sh!try day at work with a slacker and the warranty on my knees clearly expired... Didn't feel like getting out of my chair to grab a book or two due to the pain.
I'll look later on, but the gist was the Japanese forces were more liberally outfitted with LMGs than normal. Also, Shibasaki intensively trained those forces relentlessly prior to the invasion, the effects of that training showed even after his demise.
I didn't mean to underline the morale, but the thought that this might be a decent balance option is intriguing.

Also. WHAT ASL PLAYER DOESN'T WANT MORE (legitimate) SQUAD COUNTERS???!??!!?

(ice doesn't help bone spurs)

 

[Hutch]

I think it would be difficult to maintain accuracy (acquisition) with a mortar without a bipod or forward strut, being held by hand, subject to recoil. Hence, no need for counters. I would also argue this case against the OML 2" and the M19 Paratroop mortar, which do use acquisition counters.

 

[jrv]

I think it would be difficult to maintain accuracy (acquisition) with a mortar without a bipod or forward strut, being held by hand, subject to recoil. Hence, no need for counters. I would also argue this case against the OML 2" and the M19 Paratroop mortar, which do use acquisition counters.

The Type 89 was fired by "setting the Type 89 discharger at a fixed angle of 45 degrees, and varying distance to target by adjusting the size of a variable chamber space inside the discharger mechanism". The "variable chamber space" did not reset on each shot. It did not have an adjustable bypod because that's not how range was adjusted (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/type-89-knee-mortar-at-james-d-julia/)

JR

 

[jrv]

I'll look later on, but the gist was the Japanese forces were more liberally outfitted with LMGs than normal.

The way to adjust for more LMGs is to give the Japanese more LMG counters. If a squad wants to use two LMGs instead of its inherent, go for it. The problem with making them a 548 is that the CC value changes, which in ASL terms does not happen with more LMGs. Every member of the squad needs an automatic or semi-automatic weapon for that to happen.

JR

 

[Sparky]

The Type 89 was fired by "setting the Type 89 discharger at a fixed angle of 45 degrees, and varying distance to target by adjusting the size of a variable chamber space inside the discharger mechanism". The "variable chamber space" did not reset on each shot. It did not have an adjustable bypod because that's not how range was adjusted (https://www.forgottenweapons.com/type-89-knee-mortar-at-james-d-julia/)

JR

and was a remarkably accurate weapon, with high rate of fire, in the hands of well trained crews which they always were. I think I read once that 40% of all American causalties were directly attributed to the type 89. Nasty little things weren't they, little fragmentation in the rounds but loaded with high explosive. One thing that always stuck in my mind reading combat accounts of Pacific actions were the aftermath of direct hits by those things. Wasn't that battaltion commander, whose name escapes me, the battaltion that took Surabachi IIRC on Iwo stuck by one, the biggest piece they found of him was a section of his rib cage.

 

[olli]

Also. WHAT ASL PLAYER DOESN'T WANT MORE (legitimate) SQUAD COUNTERS???!??!!?

(ice doesn't help bone spurs)

Mm me!

 

[Sparky]

and with you on the problem with ACQ counters. Always has been an issue in large scale games with more than 6 or even 12 (aa-ff) of the same ordnance type in a CG or huge scenario You sort of forced to come up with ways to account for them and manage and keep track of acquistion. In my counter set I keep multiple sets of a-f, and aa-ff ordance types and upon set up group them in specifics areas of battlefield and make use the many years of various shades of nationality ACQ we have got and assign them accordingly.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Also. WHAT ASL PLAYER DOESN'T WANT MORE (legitimate) SQUAD COUNTERS???!??!!?

As long as I get to decide what's legitimate -- jim

 

[dlazov]

According to one of my my sources I see:


The Japanese had varying squad level strengths:

-----------------------
Japanese Army Squads: -
-----------------------

Rifle Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (160 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (48)

Rifle Squad: 1/36-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (80 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (48)

Rifle Squad: 1/42-12/46
Men: 12
Type 99 Rifle (80 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (80 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (48)

Rifle Squad: 9/43-12/46
Men: 12
Type 99 Rifle (80 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (80 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (24)
Type 3 AT Grenade (2)

Rifle Squad: 9/43-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (80 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (24)
Type 3 AT Grenade (2)

Rifle Squad: 9/43-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (160 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (24)
Type 3 AT Grenade (2)

-------------------------------
Japanese Army Support Squads: |
-------------------------------

Support Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)

Support Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)

Support Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (24 rounds)

Support Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)
Type 91 Rifle Grenade (24)

Support Squad: 1/30-12/46
Men: 12
Type 38 Rifle (80 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (24 rounds)
Type 91 Rifle Grenade (24)

Support Squad: 1/42-12/46
Men: 12
Type 99 Rifle (80 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)

Support Squad: 1/42-12/46
Men: 12
Type 99 Rifle (80 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (80 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)
Type 91 Rifle Grenade (24)

--------------
SNLF Squads: |
--------------

SNLF Squad: 1/30-12/46
Type 35 Rifle (180 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (72)

SNLF Squad: 1/36-12/46
Type 99 Rifle (90 rounds)
6.5 Type 96 LMG (90 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (72)

SNLF Squad: 1/42-12/46
Type 99 Rifle (90 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (90 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (72)

SNLF Squad: 3/43-12/46
Type 99 Rifle (90 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (90 rounds)
Type 91 Grenade (36)
Type 3 AT Grenade (4)

----------------------
SNLF Support Squads: |
----------------------
SNLF Suport Squad: 1/30-12/46
Type 35 Rifle (90 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (48 rounds)
Type 91 Rifle Grenade (24)

SNLF Suport Squad: 1/42-12/46
Type 99 Rifle (90 rounds)
7.7 Type 99 LMG (90 rounds)
5cm Type 89 Grenade Launcher (24 rounds)
Type 91 Rifle Grenade (24)