Newb Review of Croix de Guerre

boylermaker

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I can't do too many more of these: once Hollow Legions comes out in 2023, I'll own every core module and have been playing for a decade. At that point, I will at last be promoted from "Newb" to ... I dunno ... "Journeyman"? "Styxman"? "REO Speedwagonman"?

Anyway, got my Croix de Guerre the other day. I am pleased with it. As always, the physical components are very nice over all. A few quibbles, but nice things to offset them quibbles as well.

1) CON: Die cutting doesn't always go all the way through the counter sheets, leaving ragged edges on the counters, and sometimes tearing the bottom if you don't cut them out with a razor blade.
2) CON: The French blue was a bit inconsistent: on a few sheets, there were areas of darker and lighter blue (and no, I'm not getting confused by German counters!). This isn't a big deal for me (you may well already have variable-color German and Russian counters from several generations of modules and HASLs), but I've never seen this within a single module before.
3) PRO: Whatever nonsense was happening with the counter font on the Forgotten War counters (and maybe the RB/RO counters) has now ceased, and we are back to the familiar numbers that don't look like they were cut out from construction paper by a conscientious third-grader. For me, this "pro" by itself outweighs all the aesthetic cons.
4) CON: There are two-toned counters that didn't exist before. I think I've made my feelings on two-toned counters clear in the past.
5) PRO: One of the problems with TTC is they make the alignment-of-die-and-printing much more high-stakes. This time I did pretty well: my TTC countersheet is perfectly aligned in the front, and fairly well aligned on the back. So I'm less annoyed by TTC then usual. (CON: looking at my other countersheets make me suspect this will not be the case for everyone).
6) PRO: These TTC may be totally ignored, and I can go back to using blue counters for the Vichy and Commonwealth counters for the Free French like I was before. The only time that you would have to use these excrescences is if some deranged future designer makes a scenario with Vichy forces armed with German SW, or Vichy and German forces on the same battlefield. The good news is that scenario designers completely ignore the functional features of TTC, so we are safe from such things. Or at least, the probability is low; low enough to be about the same probability that someone will design a Vichy-vs-Free-French scenario in which the Vichy have 5/8" counters, in which case you'll have to discard the TTC and go back to the old method anyway.
7) PRO: If you DO like TTC counters, now you have some for Vichy forces! Good for MMP for doing this in a way that is optional and backward compatible, so that everyone can be happy.
8a) PRO*: Rather than put the recently-printed-in-Yanks boards 40 and 41 in the module, they replaced them with the utterly-out-of-print-Action-Pack boards 42 and 43. This is a nice bonus for people like me who came along ater those boards had disappeared.
or
8b) CON*: Rather than put the recently-printed-in-Yanks boards 40 and 41 in the module, they replaced them with the utterly-out-of-print-Action-Pack boards 42 and 43. If you are one of those people who didn't get Yanks before it went out of print, you now don't have the boards 40 and 41 that you are going to want for some of the Croix de Guerre scenarios. Hopefully you are into VASL. Frankly, if you are new enough to the hobby that you don't have Yanks, you are going to be so swamped by module dependencies that you'll need to play most of these scenarios on VASL anyway.
9) CON: No overlays. The X-series of overlays, especially, are widely used and were in the original Croix de Guerre, but are nowhere to be found here or in any other core module. If, like me, you joined the hobby some time in the past decade, you may want these overlays. MMP seems to have no plans on including them in any core module, but has used complaints along these lines to try to drum up interest in a currently-hypothetical Overlay Pack that would be 90% overlays I already own. Hard pass on this one. Perhaps their plan is not to include overlays in any future core modules, and force a god-knows-how-expensive, never-seen-the-light-of-the-preorder-page Overlay Pack into the "core" rotation? If so, the upcoming Hollow Legions reprint will make an interesting test case for that business strategy, since it's my understanding that overlays are basically essential for DTO. I expect that when I spend $150 for Hollow Legions, I am not going to be excited by the idea that I have to spend an additional $100 for an overlay pack just to play any DTO scenarios on a physical board (and that's assuming that the overlay pack will be in print at the same time as Hollow Legions, which is possibly the most unlikely assumption that has ever been assumed). That said, there was a great deal of annoyance over the disappearance of these overlays from CdG, and MMP has always impressed me with customer service. It wouldn't surprise me if the missing CdG overlays quietly found their way into Hollow Legions.
10) PRO: Alternatively, possibly the removal of overlays represents the first step in MMP shifting from offering content as nationality-based-modules to component-based-packs. Maybe the future is a world in which there is a map pack, an overlay pack, a counter pack, a rulebook, a Chapter H book, and then a series of scenario packs and HASLs. As someone who plays almost entirely on VASL, that world would save me a lot of money (also: as someone who plays entirely on VASL, #9 doesn't bother me so much; but as a completionist, #9 bothers me a lot).
11) PRO: There are approximately 1000 scenarios in this module.
12) PRO: The Dinant HASL looks fun, recreating the forced crossing of the Meuse river by the Germans in 1940. 11 scenarios (most on the very handsome HASL map, but a couple on geoboards) and one 5-date CG. It looks reasonably chromatic, but a lot of the chrome is bucket-list stuff that is in the rules already, like climbing. For some reason, I find that sort of thing preferable to bespoke chrome. One of the scenarios is set in 1944, it looks like during the Bulge: getting to use the HASL map for two very different points in the war is a very cool feature that most HASLs don't have.
13) CON?: There was a fair amount of grumbling that you couldn't get Dinant separately, for those people who already had CdG from ancient of days. While Dinant is pretty cool, it's also a bit light, so I can appreciate why people would be uninterested in paying $150 for a module in which Dinant is the only thing in the box that is new for them. That being said, this is a Newb Review, not a "Back-in-my-day-we-walked-to-school-under-fire-from-enemies-not-suppressed-by-VBM-both-ways" Review, so I'm not going to adjudicate the question further.

All in all, I thought it was worth my money and would recommend that people in my same position buy it. But I would say this is a third tier module. By that I mean:

In Tier 1, we have core modules that you should absolutely have if you are interested in the hobby:
Beyond Valor, For King and Country, Yanks
In Tier 2, we have core modules that I would recommend you buy when they are in print, but you could skip without too much harm if you are happy living on the ETO alone:
Rising Sun, Hollow Legions
In Tier 3, we have things that you should get if you have the money and interest, or if you want to be self-sufficient when it comes to kit:
Croix de Guerre, Doomed Battalions, Hakkaa Paalle, Armies of Oblivion, Forgotten War

If you have a more limited ASL budget than I do, or if you already have the first edition of Croix de Guerre, or if you have friends whose gear you can play with, I think this one is skippable, but I'm still glad I bought it.
 

jrv

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5) PRO: One of the problems with TTC is they make the alignment-of-die-and-printing much more high-stakes. This time I did pretty well: my TTC countersheet is perfectly aligned in the front, and fairly well aligned on the back. So I'm less annoyed by TTC then usual. (CON: looking at my other countersheets make me suspect this will not be the case for everyone).
As you say, it is not the case for everyone. Some of my Vichy MMC are off to the side. I don't worry about such things too much, but it is noticeable.

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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3) PRO: Whatever nonsense was happening with the counter font on the Forgotten War counters (and maybe the RB/RO counters) has now ceased, and we are back to the familiar numbers that don't look like they were cut out from construction paper by a conscientious third-grader. For me, this "pro" by itself outweighs all the aesthetic cons.
When I look at the proofing files for CdG and FW - the numbers looke pretty much the same to me. Top is FW. Maybe it's not these numbers/characters you mean?
 

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CTKnudsen

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But I would say this is a third tier module. By that I mean:

In Tier 1, we have core modules that you should absolutely have if you are interested in the hobby:
Beyond Valor, For King and Country, Yanks
In Tier 2, we have core modules that I would recommend you buy when they are in print, but you could skip without too much harm if you are happy living on the ETO alone:
Rising Sun, Hollow Legions
In Tier 3, we have things that you should get if you have the money and interest, or if you want to be self-sufficient when it comes to kit:
Croix de Guerre, Doomed Battalions, Hakkaa Paalle, Armies of Oblivion, Forgotten War
Funny enough, I was just making an argument for tiered modules, but I only have 2 tiers: Rising Sun goes to tier 1, and HL to my tier 2. My point was that tier 1 modules should pretty much always be available/be sent to reprint ASAP, whereas the rest can get away with periodic reprints. I can see how HL might be considered a tier 1 product, however, as the sole source for DTO.

While I haven't played anything from it yet, Dinant looks really great. It tries something that has never been done (to my knowledge) before - an opposed river crossing CG, and I think it really highlights the versatility of the system overall. Hats off to Dan Dolan and all the rest who helped put it together, I hope it plays as awesome as it looks like it will!
 

Jobbo_Fett

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Italians, Pro-Fascist Italians, Allied Italians

British, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, Canadians

Australians get a kangaroo icon, NZ's get the kiwi, Indians get the elephant, Canadians get a maple leaf
 

Ric of The LBC

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I can't do too many more of these: once Hollow Legions comes out in 2023, I'll own every core module and have been playing for a decade. At that point, I will at last be promoted from "Newb" to ... I dunno ... "Journeyman"? "Styxman"? "REO Speedwagonman"?

Anyway, got my Croix de Guerre the other day. I am pleased with it. As always, the physical components are very nice over all. A few quibbles, but nice things to offset them quibbles as well.

1) CON: Die cutting doesn't always go all the way through the counter sheets, leaving ragged edges on the counters, and sometimes tearing the bottom if you don't cut them out with a razor blade.
2) CON: The French blue was a bit inconsistent: on a few sheets, there were areas of darker and lighter blue (and no, I'm not getting confused by German counters!). This isn't a big deal for me (you may well already have variable-color German and Russian counters from several generations of modules and HASLs), but I've never seen this within a single module before.
3) PRO: Whatever nonsense was happening with the counter font on the Forgotten War counters (and maybe the RB/RO counters) has now ceased, and we are back to the familiar numbers that don't look like they were cut out from construction paper by a conscientious third-grader. For me, this "pro" by itself outweighs all the aesthetic cons.
4) CON: There are two-toned counters that didn't exist before. I think I've made my feelings on two-toned counters clear in the past.
5) PRO: One of the problems with TTC is they make the alignment-of-die-and-printing much more high-stakes. This time I did pretty well: my TTC countersheet is perfectly aligned in the front, and fairly well aligned on the back. So I'm less annoyed by TTC then usual. (CON: looking at my other countersheets make me suspect this will not be the case for everyone).
6) PRO: These TTC may be totally ignored, and I can go back to using blue counters for the Vichy and Commonwealth counters for the Free French like I was before. The only time that you would have to use these excrescences is if some deranged future designer makes a scenario with Vichy forces armed with German SW, or Vichy and German forces on the same battlefield. The good news is that scenario designers completely ignore the functional features of TTC, so we are safe from such things. Or at least, the probability is low; low enough to be about the same probability that someone will design a Vichy-vs-Free-French scenario in which the Vichy have 5/8" counters, in which case you'll have to discard the TTC and go back to the old method anyway.
7) PRO: If you DO like TTC counters, now you have some for Vichy forces! Good for MMP for doing this in a way that is optional and backward compatible, so that everyone can be happy.
8a) PRO*: Rather than put the recently-printed-in-Yanks boards 40 and 41 in the module, they replaced them with the utterly-out-of-print-Action-Pack boards 42 and 43. This is a nice bonus for people like me who came along ater those boards had disappeared.
or
8b) CON*: Rather than put the recently-printed-in-Yanks boards 40 and 41 in the module, they replaced them with the utterly-out-of-print-Action-Pack boards 42 and 43. If you are one of those people who didn't get Yanks before it went out of print, you now don't have the boards 40 and 41 that you are going to want for some of the Croix de Guerre scenarios. Hopefully you are into VASL. Frankly, if you are new enough to the hobby that you don't have Yanks, you are going to be so swamped by module dependencies that you'll need to play most of these scenarios on VASL anyway.
9) CON: No overlays. The X-series of overlays, especially, are widely used and were in the original Croix de Guerre, but are nowhere to be found here or in any other core module. If, like me, you joined the hobby some time in the past decade, you may want these overlays. MMP seems to have no plans on including them in any core module, but has used complaints along these lines to try to drum up interest in a currently-hypothetical Overlay Pack that would be 90% overlays I already own. Hard pass on this one. Perhaps their plan is not to include overlays in any future core modules, and force a god-knows-how-expensive, never-seen-the-light-of-the-preorder-page Overlay Pack into the "core" rotation? If so, the upcoming Hollow Legions reprint will make an interesting test case for that business strategy, since it's my understanding that overlays are basically essential for DTO. I expect that when I spend $150 for Hollow Legions, I am not going to be excited by the idea that I have to spend an additional $100 for an overlay pack just to play any DTO scenarios on a physical board (and that's assuming that the overlay pack will be in print at the same time as Hollow Legions, which is possibly the most unlikely assumption that has ever been assumed). That said, there was a great deal of annoyance over the disappearance of these overlays from CdG, and MMP has always impressed me with customer service. It wouldn't surprise me if the missing CdG overlays quietly found their way into Hollow Legions.
10) PRO: Alternatively, possibly the removal of overlays represents the first step in MMP shifting from offering content as nationality-based-modules to component-based-packs. Maybe the future is a world in which there is a map pack, an overlay pack, a counter pack, a rulebook, a Chapter H book, and then a series of scenario packs and HASLs. As someone who plays almost entirely on VASL, that world would save me a lot of money (also: as someone who plays entirely on VASL, #9 doesn't bother me so much; but as a completionist, #9 bothers me a lot).
11) PRO: There are approximately 1000 scenarios in this module.
12) PRO: The Dinant HASL looks fun, recreating the forced crossing of the Meuse river by the Germans in 1940. 11 scenarios (most on the very handsome HASL map, but a couple on geoboards) and one 5-date CG. It looks reasonably chromatic, but a lot of the chrome is bucket-list stuff that is in the rules already, like climbing. For some reason, I find that sort of thing preferable to bespoke chrome. One of the scenarios is set in 1944, it looks like during the Bulge: getting to use the HASL map for two very different points in the war is a very cool feature that most HASLs don't have.
13) CON?: There was a fair amount of grumbling that you couldn't get Dinant separately, for those people who already had CdG from ancient of days. While Dinant is pretty cool, it's also a bit light, so I can appreciate why people would be uninterested in paying $150 for a module in which Dinant is the only thing in the box that is new for them. That being said, this is a Newb Review, not a "Back-in-my-day-we-walked-to-school-under-fire-from-enemies-not-suppressed-by-VBM-both-ways" Review, so I'm not going to adjudicate the question further.

All in all, I thought it was worth my money and would recommend that people in my same position buy it. But I would say this is a third tier module. By that I mean:

In Tier 1, we have core modules that you should absolutely have if you are interested in the hobby:
Beyond Valor, For King and Country, Yanks
In Tier 2, we have core modules that I would recommend you buy when they are in print, but you could skip without too much harm if you are happy living on the ETO alone:
Rising Sun, Hollow Legions
In Tier 3, we have things that you should get if you have the money and interest, or if you want to be self-sufficient when it comes to kit:
Croix de Guerre, Doomed Battalions, Hakkaa Paalle, Armies of Oblivion, Forgotten War

If you have a more limited ASL budget than I do, or if you already have the first edition of Croix de Guerre, or if you have friends whose gear you can play with, I think this one is skippable, but I'm still glad I bought it.
Well done Sir.
 

Robin Reeve

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I don't see why there should be "tiers" among the core modules.
The French are essential to an ASL experience.
They fought longer than the Usaians, Russians, etc.
Unless one deliberately wants to ignore 1940 as part of WW2, CdG is an extremely important module. And the French fought valiantly at the tactical level, suffering horrendous losses comparable to WW1 casualty rates (60'000 dead IIRC, that is 2'000 a day), even though they lost on a strategic level.
From 1942 on, the French were a very important part of the Allied forces.

So I vote that all core modules are essential to play ASL.
And one must grab each one when still available.
 

CTKnudsen

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Sure, I agree that you need all the modules to get the full experience, and if MMP could both keep them all in stock and be viable, I'd want that as a preferred choice. But if they are not all going to be in stock, then I think that keeping those modules that contain the more major (ducks thrown items while acknowledging the sacrifices made by all participant nations, etc.) combatants i.e, Germans, Russians, Commonwealth, Americans, as well as the PTO and the RB from going OOP, would help people get into the hobby/lifestyle more easily. It's wishful thinking, I know, but still.
 

boylermaker

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@Swiftandsure, I agree that in a vacuum "buy any MMP product while it's in stock" is good advice. Clearly that is my revealed preference. However, I think that some advice on how to triage MMP products is still useful for those who are limited in their budget of money and time. I feel quite fortunate in what I can afford to buy, but even so, MMP's prices have risen fast enough that they are approaching my limits, so I can imagine that there are people out there who need to make tough decisions.

Looking at my scenario list, about 2/3 of them involve the Germans, 1/3 the Americans, 1/3 the Russians. Brits are a bit weak, at maybe 15% (I was surprised by how low this was), so perhaps I should downgrade them to Tier 2 or 3. The French are at maybe 5%, even with Croix de Guerre. The Free French are another 5%, but since you get the counters for in both Croix de Guerre and For King and Country, that's not a strong argument for buying CdG if you are cash-limited.

@CTKnudsen, your production-focused Tier system makes sense. I guess mine is more consumption-focused. The difference between Tier 2 and Tier 3, in my head, is that both let you play relatively few new scenarios, but the scenarios that you do add with the Tier 2 modules are extremely different in flavor. Many people seem happy playing ETO only, so it seems like simply a fact that many are OK with not buying Rising Sun or Hollow Legions. This is useful info for people getting into the hobby.

@klasmalmstrom, you are of course, the world's expert on what the proofs look like, but my counters simply don't look the same:
12071
The most obvious are the "d" in "dm", which is about 50-60% taller than the "m" in the FW counters, but only 20-30% taller than the "m" in other MMP products. Another giveaway is the "1"--the top and bottom lines of the cross-hatch of the FW "1" run in parallel for a short stretch, which never occurs in other modules' counters. In general, the line thickness seems to be quite a bit less constant on FW counters than otherwise.

I could be persuaded that this is the same font, just at a different thickness, or with irregularities in the FW printing process that didn't occur with other modules. I could also be persuaded that this is a strange obsession from my stamp collecting days (thank God these counters aren't watermarked!), and that no one else has noticed or cared. But for me, it was quite the relief that the somewhat bootleg look of the FW counters was not seen in CdG.
 
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