Nameless Jay
Recruit
When may a unit assault moving in open ground retain concealment?
I am playing a guy who says Assault Moving in OG always retains Concealment. The wording in the Chart gives him this impression (failing to differentiate between non-concealment terrain and OG). I showed him the 2nd bullet point in 12.14, but he was not convinced. We agreed to go with the consensus of the group.Night is another case. If the unit is offboard. If there are no enemy units with LOS, or all those enemy units are not Good Order, or those enemy units are concealed and refuse to momentarily reveal themselves, or are unarmed, unarmored vehicles. There are probably a number of other cases. Is there a context for this question, or is it a general fishing expedition for rules stories?
JR
In that context, assault moving in open ground does not usually maintain concealment because more often than not there is a GO enemy unit in range with LOS. As you say A12.14 gives moving in open ground as an explicit cause for loss of concealment, but this is also repeated in case B on the A12.121 chart (which applies to infantry at range <17), so I don't see how one could usefully appeal to that chart.I am playing a guy who says Assault Moving in OG always retains Concealment. The wording in the Chart gives him this impression (failing to differentiate between non-concealment terrain and OG). I showed him the 2nd bullet point in 12.14, but he was not convinced. We agreed to go with the consensus of the group.
Yes.Does the Index call out both instances?
Open Ground (OG; for Concealment Gain/Loss, Dash, Interdiction, and Rout determination, an Open Ground hex is any hex in Normal Range in which any Interdictor could apply the -1 FFMO DRM): A10.531, B1 [Dash: A4.A63] [Deep Snow: E3.65] [Desert: F1] [for FFMO: any hex in which no positive TEM or LOS Hindrance applies: A4.6] [Ground/Deep Snow: E3.722] [Irrigation Ditches: Q1.2] [Mud: E3.65] [Overrun: D7.15] [Partial Orchard: Q3.2] [Railroad: B32.21]
Is the AM unit subject to FFMO -- if yes, then it loses concealment. That is my shorthand mnemonic. That covers just about every situation except winter cammo.
At night you can move (including AM) & not lose concealment while subject to FFMO.Is the AM unit subject to FFMO -- if yes, then it loses concealment. That is my shorthand mnemonic. That covers just about every situation except winter cammo.
Concealment would be lost for NAM in an unhindered location with no TEM.Rule A12.14 says (in next to last sentence of last Paragraph), "The presence of a LOS Hindrance or beneficial defensive DRM (such as TEM and CA change DRM) along the LOS to a concealed unit does not prevent loss of its concealment.". Thus, no FFMO if a LOS Hindrance (i.e., Brush/Grain/etc.) lies along the LOS but concealment is still lost.
Ed
Concealment would be lost for NAM in an unhindered location with no TEM.
That last paragraph refers to general concealment loss as outlined in the bullet list earlier in A12.14. More to the point, Open Ground is called out in the second bullet item as defined by A10.531, which does involve the presence of TEM/Hinderances with respect to a spotting unit.
Correct as long as the hindrance cancels FFMO. Some hindrances do not cancel FFMO, e.g. LV hindrances.So Concealment would not be lost due to the presence of a Hindrance (i.e., no FFMO) per A10.531. I had completely missed the reference to A10.531 by A12.14.