SR/FFE Blast Height and Rooftops

[antony.marsh]

Does C1.32 mean a SR/FFE height rises from say, level 0 through level one and level two all the way up to level 3 but not on or above level 3? Important for RF with all those 2.5 rooftops. By the way, having read the previous questions on where the SR lands on an interior factory hex, still not quite clear; rooftop and then the FFE at ground level? Or does the SR, in an interior factory hex, also land at the ground level? Cheers for help.

 

[Robin Reeve]

C1.57 says that the FFE Hindrance is two levels high.
Where do you see it is three?

 

[Eagle4ty]

Does C1.32 mean a SR/FFE height rises from say, level 0 through level one and level two all the way up to level 3 but not on or above level 3? Important for RF with all those 2.5 rooftops. By the way, having read the previous questions on where the SR lands on an interior factory hex, still not quite clear; rooftop and then the FFE at ground level? Or does the SR, in an interior factory hex, also land at the ground level? Cheers for help.

It rises up to, but not to include, Level 3 if the base level of the blast is at level 0 (Through the next two levels) unlike HC Smoke that only rises to, but not to include, level 2. {See the example in C1.62 for SR & Example A24.4 for Smoke}

An SR is placed at the Base Level of the hex (C1.32) as you stated and noted in the example [From the Index: Base Level (normally the lowest level Location other than cellar/sewer/tunnel in a Hex; however, IF the lowest level Location in building hex does not allow VBM along at least one Hexside of that hex, the Base Level is that of the highest building level in that hex [EX: The Base Level of 20C7 is 2 1/2; that of 20D7 is 0]): C1.32].

 

[Magpie]

The way I look at it is that an FFE, which is indirect fire, affects the top level and roof of an interior building hex, so that to my mind fixes the spotting round at that height. It would be crazy to have a situation where an FFE affects a location that the SR does not.

Also, the blast height of an FFE is the same as its spotting round so it would be silly to have the SR and FFE blast height rising from level 2 1/2 but the effects of the FFE being at level 2 in the case of a regular building but level 0 for a factory.

 

[antony.marsh]

Cheers chaps, yes I thought the SR/FFE, if on level 0 rises through the next two higher levels so, if you like, up to level 2.99. As for the SR, I understand your example Eagle4ty but what if it lands in an interior factory hex with no VBM-is the roof the highest level or the ground level? Cheers

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Pretty sure an SR/FFE (non-WP) is 2 Levels high - not 2.9999.

 

[antony.marsh]

I'm up for correction but C1.32 says 'through the next two levels', that would suggest to me above level two but not to level 3. Also any comment on the 'bouncing' SR? Roof or ground level of an interior factory. Cheers

 

[Binchois]

Does C1.32 mean a SR/FFE height rises from say, level 0 through level one and level two all the way up to level 3 but not on or above level 3? Important for RF with all those 2.5 rooftops. By the way, having read the previous questions on where the SR lands on an interior factory hex, still not quite clear; rooftop and then the FFE at ground level? Or does the SR, in an interior factory hex, also land at the ground level? Cheers for help.

While I had been of a different opinion, Magpie (in his inimitable, astonishingly confident manner) has managed to convince me (call me crazy!?). According to the index definition of Base Level, the Base Level of any building rises from its upper-most "building Level."

While it remains unclear whether the rooftop counts as a "building Level" (and would that change whether or not they we're in play?), they typically don't behave as such, so most likely are not. Since a Factory has only the ground level, an SR/FFE should rise from that level.

Presumably, even Smoke above an interior building hex would obey this rule as the same definition "Base Level" must be used. I find this odd, but hey, "you go to war with the RB you have, not the RB you wish you had."

 

[antony.marsh]

But B23.8 states 'Rooftops are treated the same as another building floor level...' make of that what you will. Help.

 

[Magpie]

But B23.8 states 'Rooftops are treated the same as another building floor level...' make of that what you will. Help.

They only exists by SSR though and indirect fire affects them AND the level below

 

[Robin Reeve]

Pretty sure an SR/FFE (non-WP) is 2 Levels high - not 2.9999.

So do I.
From 0 to 1 and from 1 to 2.
As a 2 level hill is not higher than 2 levels.

 

[Binchois]

But B23.8 states 'Rooftops are treated the same as another building floor level...' make of that what you will. Help.

I feel your pain! I made the same point in the previous thread:

Rooftops are generally not treated as building Locations - for TEM, rally, routing, VC, and most concealment purposes. On the other hand, they are for Searching/Mopping Up purposes. Somewhat unhelpfully, the RB states: "Rooftops are treated the same as another building floor level..."

The problem with creating mundane yet quasi-technical Game jargon like "building Level" is that it is hard to tell when one is employing the term and one is just speaking plain English!

 

[antony.marsh]

Okay, senile moment over, thanks to everyone. Firstly totally happy that the SR/FFE is the same as a level 2 hill- no higher than level 2. Secondly, the SR/FFE lands at the ground level of an interior factory hex; as Magpie states, both the rooftop and highest level (ground in the case of a factory) are affected B23.32. Thanks chaps

 

[Magpie]

Okay, senile moment over, thanks to everyone. Firstly totally happy that the SR/FFE is the same as a level 2 hill- no higher than level 2. Secondly, the SR/FFE lands at the ground level of an interior factory hex; as Magpie states, both the rooftop and highest level (ground in the case of a factory) are affected B23.32. Thanks chaps

An interesting aside (?) if your SR lands in an interior factory (with a stairwell) hex and the observer is not in the factory , the SR will be out of LOS

 

[Binchois]

An interesting aside (?) if your SR lands in an interior factory (with a stairwell) hex and the observer is not in the factory , the SR will be out of LOS

Not necessarily. The SR still has a 2 level blast height.

 

[Magpie]

Not necessarily. The SR still has a 2 level blast height.

Factory with a stairwell is 2 1/2 levels so the SR won't rise out of the bldg

 

[Magpie]

The observer wouldn't see the SR at all, that's the point. Just the sound and a bit of dust.

Even in WW2 all armies had a version of

Shot shot shot over
Shot shot shot out

Splash splash splash over (accompanying the boom)

 

[Ed Caswell]

The next to the last sentence of the first Example in Rule C1.62 reads, "(Thus even had the SSR landed in W3 he still could have seen it.)". In the accompanying illustration for the first Example the round is at Level 0 in W3 and the Viewer is at Level 2 in W6 with Level 2 Hexes (W5 and W4) between the Viewer and the SR (Plateau effect). Seems to me that even though the SR rises through 2 levels (1.32) it can be seen at Level 2.01.

Ed

 

[Robin Reeve]

The next to the last sentence of the first Example in Rule C1.62 reads, "(Thus even had the SSR landed in W3 he still could have seen it.)". In the accompanying illustration for the first Example the round is at Level 0 in W3 and the Viewer is at Level 2 in W6 with Level 2 Hexes (W5 and W4) between the Viewer and the SR (Plateau effect). Seems to me that even though the SR rises through 2 levels (1.32) it can be seen at Level 2.01.

Ed

It can be seen as a 2 level obstacle from a unit at level 2 which LOS crosses obstacles which are level 2 or less.
Like a 2nd level hill, for an example.

 

[jrv]

As I understand it, a SR/FFE behaves like a unit at level two. If you could see a unit at level two in the hex, you can see the SR/FFE. I don't have a problem if you you want to call that unit/SR/FFE as at level 2.01, but the ASLRB speaks of units at level two being able to see over level two obstacles to other things at level two, whether units, SRs or FFEs, without invoking fractions (until you add in rooftops).

JR