armored trains

MichalS

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
88
Location
Bratislava & Wien
First name
Michal
Country
llSlovakia
Thanks guys, that is helpful. I am not certain whether "operating independently" does not mean that there was a second, unarmored train engine. I will try to find out. It would be also thinkable that some cars are left behind for refit, and that cars are added and unhooked from the train as the need dictates. But it would seem that "armoured train" captures this complex unit of engines, cars and crews rather well.

Steve, I want to see a rule that allows to unhook cars while driving to increase speed and prevent capture! (Loaded with Set DCs as an option. ?)
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
3,732
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
It seems that armored train is the correct expression in english for multi-car trains. Otherwise, the self-powered armored railroad vehicles are called "armored railcars" as this German Zeppelin:
View attachment 7552
That's a new photo to me. The turret is from a BA-10 armoured car.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
It seems that armored train is the correct expression in english for multi-car trains. Otherwise, the self-powered armored railroad vehicles are called "armored railcars" as this German Zeppelin:
View attachment 7552
Although it might be wrong, I would be comfortable referring to a single-car, self-propelled unit as an armored train. An armored railcar would be any single component of an armored train, whether a stand-alone device or part of a larger unit. That's my take on how the words would work, but I am by no means an expert on armored train nomenclature. Perhaps experts would disagree with my usage.

JR
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
3,732
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
From my Irish usage perspective a railcar is a self propelled unit, but having more functionality than just a engine. The term railcar in a civilian context usually referred to a passenger unit with a diesel or electric engine and a small driver's cab at one or both ends. A carriage or wagon is not powered. A train is made up of an engine or railcar (possibly multiple units) with optionally unpowered carriages/wagons, but at least two or more units (counting a steam engine and tender as one unit). A train could have, say, 2-8 railcars, each self powered but controlled from one end railcar or the more traditional engine with one plus carriages/wagons.

So a single self propelled unit would be a (armoured) railcar and could also cover something like an armoured car with adapter wheels. An armoured train would have at least one engine and one plus other units, powered or not.

A trolley/draisine/handcar is a very small carriage with either a motor, a rocking hand crank or human pushed, typically used by rail maintenance people or for rail reconnaissance. Sometimes the term draisine is used instead of railcar for a single armoured self propelled unit.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
From wikipedia

wikipedia said:
A railcar, in British English and Australian English, is a self-propelled railway vehicle designed to transport passengers. The term "railcar" is usually used in reference to a train consisting of a single coach (carriage, car), with a driver's cab at one or both ends.
In the US railcar does not have that connotation. In the US a rail car is just what I believe in British English would be a "railway wagon." Let's call the whole thing off.

JR
 

Tesgora

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
159
Reaction score
141
Location
Laniakea
Country
llCanada
For those interested in the subject, Steven J. Zaloga wrote a short book on the subject of armored trains for the Osprey series New Vanguard no.140. He covers the origins of the concept and the largest chapter is on armored trains in WWII. His book covers long armored train, short rail-cruisers (one to three units), as well as armored rail-trolleys (i.e., AFV on rail or convertible road/track to rail). For those with a deeper interest in the subject, the standard reference (still available on the internet) is Paul Malmassari Les Trains Blindés, 1826-1989. 1989? Yes, the Soviet Union/Russia kept using some armored trains during and after the Cold War.
 

lluis61

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
463
Reaction score
522
Location
Barcelona
First name
Luis
Country
llSpain
For those interested in the subject, Steven J. Zaloga wrote a short book on the subject of armored trains for the Osprey series New Vanguard no.140. He covers the origins of the concept and the largest chapter is on armored trains in WWII. His book covers long armored train, short rail-cruisers (one to three units), as well as armored rail-trolleys (i.e., AFV on rail or convertible road/track to rail). For those with a deeper interest in the subject, the standard reference (still available on the internet) is Paul Malmassari Les Trains Blindés, 1826-1989. 1989? Yes, the Soviet Union/Russia kept using some armored trains during and after the Cold War.
Not only the Soviet Unión. South African Republic kept armored trains and armored railcars for patrolling railways. And, since I have seen an armored railcar in Namibia's service, I suppose that use or armored trains extend well beyond the 1989.
 

Tesgora

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
159
Reaction score
141
Location
Laniakea
Country
llCanada
Not only the Soviet Unión. South African Republic kept armored trains and armored railcars for patrolling railways. And, since I have seen an armored railcar in Namibia's service, I suppose that use or armored trains extend well beyond the 1989.
Correct. Steven Zaloga mentions armored trains being used in a number of countries and conflict in Africa until quite lately. And some were also used in the civil wars after the break up of Yugoslavia.
 

Major Issues

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
325
Reaction score
1,102
Location
Secane, PA
First name
Vince
Country
llUnited States
Last year, I played an old scenario, Gavin's Train, AA19. (Yeah, yeah, I know, it's from CH.) The train was not armored, though the engine was. It pulled flatbeds with an AA gun and squads. In the scenario, the train is stopped. After it starts, it picks up speed each turn. The gun on the flatbed had limited LOS, due to the engine and cars in front and behind it. It all worked out quite elegantly in the game.
 

Juzek

Steve Kyle
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
383
Reaction score
145
Location
Yardley, PA
Country
llUnited States
In "Hero of the Empire," by Candice Millard, a biography of Winston Churchill, it was Winston's capture on an armored train in the Boer War, and subsequent escape and long journey to return to Great Britain as a hero that helped him win a seat in Parliament. In that conflict, the armored train was a sitting duck for the Boers - there wasn't any secret where the train was going and was easily ambushed. It could be argued that his capture and escape ultimately had a profound effect on the outcome of WW2.
 
Top