Snap shot and firelanes

[Vinnie]

Can you declare a firelane on a snapshot?
The wrinkle is snapshots never leave residual and a firelane is a "special sort of residual".

However in the firelane rules, the requirements to lay a firelane do not require it to leave residual, in fact they prevent it from laying residual in the hex.

 

[Binchois]

I would say yes so long as it is done as First Fire. A FL is declared along with a D1F attack - I don't see any reason this attack can't be a Snap Shot. Its "residual" is the result of the FL and not of the original Snap Shot (thus not in contradiction with A8.223).

As per the 9.222 EXample (2nd paragraph), the FL Residual would not be reduced despite the halved firepower of the original Snap Shot.

 

[Vinnie]

I would say yes so long as it is done as First Fire. A FL is declared along with a D1F attack - I don't see any reason this attack can't be a Snap Shot. Its "residual" is the result of the FL and not of the original Snap Shot (thus not in contradiction with A8.223).

As per the 9.222 EXample (2nd paragraph), the FL Residual would not be reduced despite the halved firepower of the original Snap Shot.

This is my reading too. Of course, all other firelane necessities need to be met.

 

[clubby]

Would @klasmalmstrom or @jrv care to chime in? A snap shot cannot leave residual. The fire lane is the original snap shot.

 

[jrv]

My guess would be that although the effects of the Fire Lane Residual FP counter talks about having similar effects as a regular residual counter, it is not exactly a residual counter. I would play it as being allowed. But you could reasonably submit for a Q&A.

If a MG uses spraying fire, can it also put down a firelane? Through either hex? Through both hexes?

JR

 

[Tater]

My guess would be that although the effects of the Fire Lane Residual FP counter talks about having similar effects as a regular residual counter, it is not exactly a residual counter. I would play it as being allowed. But you could reasonably submit for a Q&A.

If a MG uses spraying fire, can it also put down a firelane? Through either hex? Through both hexes?

JR

The FL rules specifically state that the FL can be place in "one hex". So, assuming it is allowed during spraying fire, there can only be one FL.

As to the original question, the FL has to include the target hex...there is no target hex for a Snap Shot...which is probably also why it doesn't leave residual. Based on that I would say no, a FL can't be placed during a snap shot.

 

[Vinnie]

Request for Perry Sex sent.

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/snap-shot-and-firelanes.149058/#post-1949914

8.223 SNAP SHOT:
A Snap Shot does not leave Residual FP.

9.22 FIRE LANE:

Whenever the DEFENDER declares a Defensive First Fire attack with a Good Order SW MG that is manned by unpinned Infantry (even as ordnance or as part of a FG), he may also declare a Fire Lane with that MG if it is not already marked with a First/Final Fire counter and is firing within its Normal Range (but not using TPBF) and at a same-level (B.5) target

9.221 ALTERNATE HEX GRAIN:

A Fire Lane may also be declared along an Alternate Hex Grain, which is a string of connected hexes in which the Fire Lane's LOF (i.e., a line drawn between the first and last center dot) lies along a hexspine of the first hex. Whenever that LOF lies along a hexside, the Alternate Hex Grain includes the hex either to the left or to the right of that hexside. If that LOF lies along more than one hexside, the Alternate Hex Grain consistently includes the hexes on one side (either left or right). When placing a Fire Lane Residual FP counter along an Alternate Hex Grain, the DEFENDER must declare whether that Alternate Hex Grain will include the left- or right-side hexes, but must place the counter itself in a hex with a hexspine that points directly back to the MG.

Assuming all other requirements are met.

1. May a MG that declares a snapshot lay a firelane. If so is the hex that must be part of the firelane the hex the enemy unit is entering or leaving.

2. May a MG that us using spray fire lay a firelane. If so must both hexes being fired upon form part of the firelane or merely one of those hex form part of the firelane.

Yours Aye,
Martin

 

[klasmalmstrom]

1. May a MG that declares a snapshot lay a firelane. If so is the hex that must be part of the firelane the hex the enemy unit is entering or leaving.

Since the hex the unit is entering is the hex the unit is in (for range, Control of said Location, etc.) when attacked by a Snap Shot, I don't see (if a FL is indeed allowed) how the hex is is leaving can ever be considered.

 

[fanatic+1]

Since the hex the unit is entering is the hex the unit is in (for range, Control of said Location, etc.) when attacked by a Snap Shot, I don't see (if a FL is indeed allowed) how the hex is is leaving can ever be considered.

ASL physics...

 

[Brian W]

I'm sure this question has come up before in some old q&a; however, considering that a Fire Lane may conduct a snap shot it stands to logic that a snap shot can be used to create a fire lane.

The spray fire is interesting. I would think that spray fire location would have to be in the fire lane.

 

[jrv]

I'm sure this question has come up before in some old q&a; however, considering that a Fire Lane may conduct a snap shot it stands to logic that a snap shot can be used to create a fire lane.

I'm not sure what logic you are using. Perhaps some you picked up in Colorado? I think it is still a crime to transport that sort of logic across state lines.

The spray fire is interesting. I would think that spray fire location would have to be in the fire lane.

My intention was to ask if I could create two firelanes, but Vinnie interpreted it as asking whether a single firelane had to go through both spraying fire hexes, which is perhaps even more interesting.

JR

 

[Paul M. Weir]

My intention was to ask if I could create two firelanes, but Vinnie interpreted it as asking whether a single firelane had to go through both spraying fire hexes, which is perhaps even more interesting.

I doubt that you could make 2 firelanes. The whole idea of a firelane is that you keep firing along a rough line without switching. Hmm ... are you asking whether 2 identical FL with the exact same FL marked hex hit a target twice (eg 8 original FP (halved) -> 4 FP (column) ->2, target is hit with 2 x 2 FP attacks, no FG allowed)?

As for spraying and firelane? I would suggest if the firelane is established using one of the spraying hexes, using halved then column reduced (eg 8 original FP (halved) -> 4 FP (column) -> 2 FP). That's my best reading of the existing rules.

If the FL happens to go through both spraying hexes (as per A9.22 or A9.221) then no halving but still the column reduction (eg 8 original (column) -> 6 FP). That is much more speculative.

Trust me to make something already complicated inscrutable!

 

[Vinnie]

Since the hex the unit is entering is the hex the unit is in (for range, Control of said Location, etc.) when attacked by a Snap Shot, I don't see (if a FL is indeed allowed) how the hex is is leaving can ever be considered.

I agree but wanted to put the option in for clarification purposes. Heck, I don't think the answer to any of this is unclear but obviously others have A different view to mine and I have been known to be incorrect before (just once though!)

 

[Vinnie]

Got an answer to this.

> 1. May a MG that declares a snapshot lay a firelane. If so is the hex
> that must be part of the firelane the hex the enemy unit is entering
> or leaving.

Yes. Entering.


> 2. May a MG that us using spray fire lay a firelane. If so must both
> hexes being fired upon form part of the firelane or merely one of
> those hex form part of the firelane.

Yes, but the fire lane placement hex must contain a target unit.


....Perry

MMP

 

[Hemaelstrom]

Request for Perry Sex sent.

And what was Perry's response to this part of the request?

 

[Eagle4ty]

Now the answer for a Snap-shot firelane begs for a clarification. What if the hex the unit is entering is out of the LOS/LOF of the firer? Is the response to include a hypothetical inclusion of the enterable hex regardless of the LOS/LOF or does it actually have to be within the LOS/LOF of the firer?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Now the answer for a Snap-shot firelane begs for a clarification. What if the hex the unit is entering is out of the LOS/LOF of the firer? Is the response to include a hypothetical inclusion of the enterable hex regardless of the LOS/LOF or does it actually have to be within the LOS/LOF of the firer?

I don't see if being treated as any other "blocked LOS" attack - the attack itself occurs (i.e., dice are rolled), but the unit is not attacked since it wasn't in LOS, and if there isn't a target unit in the other attacked hex there is no Fire Lane placed.

 

[Eagle4ty]

I don't see if being treated as any other "blocked LOS" attack - the attack itself occurs (i.e., dice are rolled), but the unit is not attacked since it wasn't in LOS, and if there isn't a target unit in the other attacked hex there is no Fire Lane placed.

Since a FL could be placed along an alternate grain wouldn't the FL still exist even if it did not have LOS to the enterable hex? The FL could still possibly be along the hexspine to a hex beyond the initial target even if a LOS did not exist from the firer to the enterable hex. It seems in my experience that that is usually when a snap-shot occurs as a unit is about to leave one's LOS. The way Perry's answer is worded it seems as if one must have a LOS/LOF to the enterable hex in order to lay the FL.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Since a FL could be placed along an alternate grain wouldn't the FL still exist even if it did not have LOS to the enterable hex? The FL could still possibly be along the hexspine to a hex beyond the initial target even if a LOS did not exist from the firer to the enterable hex. It seems in my experience that that is usually when a snap-shot occurs as a unit is about to leave one's LOS. The way Perry's answer is worded it seems as if one must have a LOS/LOF to the enterable hex in order to lay the FL.

I was actually only considered the Spraying Fire option...not Snap Shot.

But since the Fire Lane rules say: "that Hex Grain must include the MG’s hex and its First Fire target hex, " - it seems to me that if during a Snap Shot the hex the units moved into is out of LOS from the MG, no Fire Lane may be placed.