German motorcycle troops question

Markdv5208

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Ok so early in World War 2, the Germans had units that were equipped with motorcycles, essentially dragoons if you think Napoleonics. Did they keep that up thru the entire war? Or at what point did they stop using them? And for what reason ie cost? Maintenance? Change from blitzkrieg to retreat krieg? (heh, that was joke)
 

Brian W

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I do not know, but they probably gave it up because they could not make motorcycles to replace those lost in the quantity needed, and could not keep up with the mass maintenance required. The Russians also had motorcycle units, but I think for the same reason ceased using motorcycles to equip whole units after 1941. But the reason why is just conjecture.
 

Bob Walters

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Possibly because motorcycles are just as vulnerable to machine gun fire as cavalry and more vulnerable than traveling on foot. On foot you will not add significantly to both you and your squads injuries when you are shot and fall.
 

Brian W

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No one rode motorcycles into combat; they dismounted and fought on foot just like cavalry did. You can bring spare horses with a cavalry unit; you have to leave excess motorcycles behind for the overworked recovery units to deal with.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Early in the war ('39-'40) a Pz Div might have a truck carried regiment of 2 infantry battalions and a MC battalion. By Barbarossa most such units were reorganised into 2 trucked regiments each of 2 battalions. The infantry component of their recon battalion was often MC carried. MC troops were simply too vulnerable, cross country mobility too limited and MC had even greater difficulty in carrying much beyond the crews personal stuff. The MC survived a bit longer in the recon role but by mid war had been replaced by truck or HT carried infantry.

The Soviets used MC in specialised MC recon battalions, which had a mix of MC and Armoured Cars. Typically a Tank or Mechanised corps would have such a battalion as would an rifle Corps. Armies and Fronts should have had such a regiment.
 

volgaG68

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The Soviets used MC in specialised MC recon battalions, which had a mix of MC and Armoured Cars.
I did not know this. I wonder who manufactured them. Lend-lease HDs from the US or Trumps from the UK?
 

volgaG68

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I never thought to do a Wiki search... they surreptitiously acquired a BMW model they liked, and brought several of them back to Russia in 40/41. Their scientists broke them down to the last nut and bolt, reverse engineered them, and Stalin's approval of the Soviet copy meant mass production ensued. There was a company, IMZ-Ural that had been making sidecar motorcycles before that.
 
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Bob Walters

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I never thought to do a Wiki search... they surreptitiously acquired a BMW model they liked, and brought several of them back to Russia in 40/41. Their scientists broke them down to the last nut and bolt, reverse engineered them, and Stalin's approval of the Soviet copy meant mass production ensued. Their was a company, IMZ-Ural that had been making sidecar motorcycles before that.
Before I retired one of our engineers was from Russia and he had vintage Russian MC with a side car very much like that.
 

witchbottles

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5th SS "Wiking" division PanzerAufklarungsAbeiltung 5 had motorcycle and sidecar-borne detachments within the recon unit as late as Cherkassy Pocket - 1943.

23rd SS "Nederland" division Seffeyrdt Regiment had motorcycle-borne "anti-tank" fusilier detachments in the Narva - Kurland area of operations, 1944.

Refitting of the 6th SS "Nord", 23rd SS "Nederland" and 11 Panzer divisions near Stettin in early 1945 saw all three units outfitted with the "anti-tank fusilier" teams, now mounted on purpose-built bicycles that carried two PzF each and had a rear rack with 4 ATMM satchels each.

By Case Blue in 1942, all Waffen-SS units had a T/O for a "command signals" detachment of 6 men, transported in motorcycles or (later approx after Kuban - 1943, on whatever transport was available), with a radio, a field phone, spools of commo wire with two wire-layers, and a 2 man security team armed with SMGs and grenades, per infantry battalion.

There are numerous references to this usage of motorcycles and sidecars on the Eastern Front - I'll be glad to list a full bibliography if anyone is interested, including ample photographic evidence.

KRL, jon H
 

DonHalsey44

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The German army used motorcycles differently. Zundapp 750 Specs require it to be able to transport over a thousand pounds. The BMW R75 and its rival the Zündapp KS-750 were both widely used by the Wehrmacht in Russia and North Africa, though after a period of evaluation it became clear that the Zündapp was the superior machine. In August 1942 Zündapp and BMW, on the urging of the Army, agreed upon standardization of parts for both machines, with a view of eventually creating a Zündapp-BMW hybrid (designated the BW 43), in which a BMW 286/1 side-car would be grafted onto a Zündapp KS 750 motorcycle. These MC had a cross-country gear. The rear drive wheels were mounted on an axel, and driven from the transmission via a drive shaft....similar to an automotive set up. The BMW and the Zundapp both had a reverse gear. They could also equipped with tire chains for mud or snow. Several models even had provision for heat to the side car. I am not sure of the total production, but the target was around 20,000 per year. I think the classic picture we see published is that of a MG section riding one toward the battlefront. Excellent vehicles.....but still not a jeep.
 

R Hooks

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Ok so early in World War 2, the Germans had units that were equipped with motorcycles, essentially dragoons if you think Napoleonics. Did they keep that up thru the entire war? Or at what point did they stop using them? And for what reason ie cost? Maintenance? Change from blitzkrieg to retreat krieg? (heh, that was joke)
I did a little research on the German use of Nimrod motorcycle AT system a few years back, The SS bought about 125 of the Denmark systems in months following occupation, exactly like the Nimrod except with a Mg 34 as LMG. These were all new construction, no captured MC were used. The SS praised them for the auto fire they could rapidly bring near the front line, but canceled their order for 250 more to be built in late 1941. The sources I found said SS used 6 in some recon MC companies, with 6 more in recon battalion HQ, sorry don't ask me for a link, too much time has passed to find it now. After 41 SS ended use of their Nimrods, 12 or so were given to a Romanian Black Sea recon unit, and at least 6 were sent to Crete, the rest according to those links said Southern France Forces received 24 or so.
As for motorcycles in general, German use declined rapidly when they realized that some they were using cost more resources and time to build then trucks that could carry 30 or more men.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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German recon elements were downgraded during the war. Infantry divisions had a mounted cavalry/recon battalion in the mid war period, but by 44-45 these were often a single company of Füsiliers - equipped with bicycles.

But of course, as the original poster alluded to, they were on the defensive most of the time so large reconnaissance elements were probably not as important.
 
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