What do y'all do about missing MG armaments

boylermaker

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I'm setting up (on a physical board) Hasty Pudding, which calls for 3 Matilda IIs, each with -/4/- machine guns.

Unless I'm missing counters, I only have two of these. It appears that the rules allow me to pick any loadout if the one called for isn't available, so I get to jump right up to the -/6/2! Wheeeee!

Anyway, do y'all worry about this at all? I'm guessing that in VASL it would never have come up (although a strict reading of the rules suggest that I should get to upgrade regardless of whether extra counters beyond the out-of-the-box order of battle, or OOB-OOB, are available).
 

klasmalmstrom

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I would use any other Matilda II counter and assume it has the same MG as the counter depicted on the counter. Then, if one of the counters with the correct MG gets knocked out (usually doesn't take that long time when I am playing :)) I swap that for the one (if still around) with incorrect MG.
 

Brian W

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I would use what the OOB stipulates even if the countermix limits it.. Technically I think there are substitution rules in the ASLRB, but most people use the card instructions unless there is an SSR explaining it.
 

jrv

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I follow the rules. D1.84, "in official scenarios only the armament configuration illustrated in the scenario OB is available unless the number of such vehicles required exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament (of the owner's choice) provided that armament is available within that time frame."

JR
 

von Marwitz

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I follow the rules. D1.84, "in official scenarios only the armament configuration illustrated in the scenario OB is available unless the number of such vehicles required exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament (of the owner's choice) provided that armament is available within that time frame."

JR
Astonishing! I never knew that! You've pointed out a little gem to the ignorant masses...

von Marwitz
 

bprobst

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I follow the rules. D1.84, "in official scenarios only the armament configuration illustrated in the scenario OB is available unless the number of such vehicles required exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament (of the owner's choice) provided that armament is available within that time frame."
I agree ... unfortunately the phrase "the number provided in the game" is kind of vague. I own a copy of WoA and two copies of FKaC. I own a lot of Matilda II counters ... which means by D1.84, I have less flexibility with optional armaments than someone who owns a single copy of the applicable module. And what about "extra" counters supplied in magazines, etc.? Throw in the ASLSK counter sheets and there's plenty of PzIVs and Shermans to go around. And, of course, if I'm playing VASL, then I have a literally unlimited number of whatever particular counters I need.

That rule was written in a different time, probably when the full scope of what ASL would become was still only a vague conception. I would sincerely consider an errata for D1.84: delete everything in that sentence after "scenario OB is available" and replace with something like "if necessary other counters can be substituted but are considered to have the same armament as depicted on the scenario card".
 

jrv

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I agree ... unfortunately the phrase "the number provided in the game" is kind of vague. I own a copy of WoA and two copies of FKaC. I own a lot of Matilda II counters ... which means by D1.84, I have less flexibility with optional armaments than someone who owns a single copy of the applicable module. And what about "extra" counters supplied in magazines, etc.? Throw in the ASLSK counter sheets and there's plenty of PzIVs and Shermans to go around. And, of course, if I'm playing VASL, then I have a literally unlimited number of whatever particular counters I need.

That rule was written in a different time, probably when the full scope of what ASL would become was still only a vague conception. I would sincerely consider an errata for D1.84: delete everything in that sentence after "scenario OB" and replace with something like "if necessary other counters can be substituted but are considered to have the same armament as depicted on the scenario card".
I have no problem with any rule that puts game hoarders like yourself at a disadvantage. There are poor, new players who would be happy with your counter-clippings.

JR
 

Brian W

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I didn't say how much I was selling the clipping for, so how can you judge my understanding of poor?

One uses the clippings to leaven your bags of pot you sell to the college kids. It's a money maker.
 

Jeffrey D Myers

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I just got a second set of Chinese counters so that I can gain an advantage in any tournament featuring them (and that I attend). To be fair, my last tournament was a craps tourney in Las Vegas about 10 years ago at the now defunct Fitz. I placed in the money, but ASL is more difficult than craps, so I need every advantage I can get.
 

bprobst

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I just got a second set of Chinese counters so that I can gain an advantage in any tournament featuring them (and that I attend).
What advantage do you think this is giving you?

The more counters you have, the fewer opportunities there are to substitute counters with differing MG options.

Perhaps we could add a house rule that your side gets one complete OB in a scenario for each copy of a module you own. That would pump up sales.

"Did I mention that I own ten copies of BV? I tell you, my 100 German squads are going to be struggling to defend against your 12 Russian squads."
 

jrv

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What advantage do you think this is giving you?
It would give an advantage if the depicted counters are the strongest of the type. It would be a disadvantage if the depicted counters are the weakest of the type. It might also be good if you fail your VTC (vacuum task check).

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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It would give an advantage if the depicted counters are the strongest of the type. It would be a disadvantage if the depicted counters are the weakest of the type. It might also be good if you fail your VTC (vacuum task check).
But according to D1.84 you can only use other counters with optional armaments (usually only applicable to AAMG) - not just any counters with different MG. :)
 

Robin Reeve

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Don't scenario cards most often differentiate variants of a vehicle counter according to the the base number of them which come in the box?
There are exceptions, in HASL scenarios where the HASL module adds more vehicles of one type - but most often supplemental counters are included in the module too.
But you often have a SSR which tells how to substitute counters when you normally couldn't have more with a base set.
I think that most designers go quite far to take in account the limits and the nature of the counters available.
Such care is a sign of good design - or at least that the designer has thought about his OB thouroughly.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Don't scenario cards most often differentiate variants of a vehicle counter according to the the base number of them which come in the box?
Some times they do, yes. But not always.

Example - a scenario card spells out that the Germans get 6 x PzKpfw IVH with MG 3/5. IIRC, there are only four such counters in BV, and two with MG 3/5/2. The optional AAMG is available in 1944-45. So if the scenario takes place in 1944-45, one can used the two with the optional AAMG per D1.84 - as I stated above, I would not do that, I would assume that no one has a AAMG - just like one has to do if the scenario takes place before 1944.
 
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