WP Casualties Rule # A24.31

Duane

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After announcing that WP will be used, and a hit on the Area To Hit Table is registered. The units that are in that hex must take a MC. When they take that MC do they get to take the terrain they are in as a minus to the DR ? For example if in a stone building when they take that MC a -3 would be subtracted from the DR is that correct?
 

klasmalmstrom

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After announcing that WP will be used, and a hit on the Area To Hit Table is registered. The units that are in that hex must take a MC.
Note that only units at the Base Level (usually ground) where the WP counter will be placed takes the NMC automatically. Units in upper-levels must actually be hit on the ATT to take the NMC.


When they take that MC do they get to take the terrain they are in as a minus to the DR ? For example if in a stone building when they take that MC a -3 would be subtracted from the DR is that correct?
Correct - unless there is a CH - the it is a +DRM.

"Leadership, CE DRM and TEM apply as negative DRM to the NMC (treating grenades as if a Direct Fire attack for TEM purposes). However, if a CH (or Air Burst when using Indirect Fire) is obtained with WP, TEM are applied to the NMC as positive DRM instead."
 

jrv

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You are correct regarding the DRM. Who gets affected is a bit more complicated. Only those units that are hit and those units that are in the location where the counter lands (usually ground) take the MC. For instance if a unit is firing at a two level building with an enemy unit in each level where the ground level is hindered at +6, the first level is blocked (plateau-ed) due to an orchard and only the top level is clear, the unit firing could (only) hit the level two unit. If the top level were hit, the WP counter would be placed at ground level, and the units at the top level (which was hit) and at the ground level (which was not hit due to the +6 hindrance, but that's where the WP counter ended up) would take a casualty MC.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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Note that only units at the Base Level (usually ground) where the WP counter will be placed takes the NMC automatically. Units in upper-levels must actually be hit on the ATT to take the NMC.
Interesting nuance. Not sure, if I was aware of that.

von Marwitz
 

Eagle4ty

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Note that only units at the Base Level (usually ground) where the WP counter will be placed takes the NMC automatically. Units in upper-levels must actually be hit on the ATT to take the NMC.



Correct - unless there is a CH - the it is a +DRM.

"Leadership, CE DRM and TEM apply as negative DRM to the NMC (treating grenades as if a Direct Fire attack for TEM purposes). However, if a CH (or Air Burst when using Indirect Fire) is obtained with WP, TEM are applied to the NMC as positive DRM instead."
However, per C3.33 all Non-aerial units in the hex would be hit automatically [EXC: if unable to be hit at all]: "All (including friendly) non-Aerial units in the target hex can be hit (even by WP), except for those immune as per 3.4". So I'm not really understanding your response here. Are you intimating that the firer may not have a LOS to other units at higher levels of a building? The rule is pretty specific to say hex and not location or are you saying that WP may somehow be fired at other than an ATT table? (Agreed that the placement of a WP grenade may have other consequences A24.31, but then the OP wasn't talking about WP grenades).
 

klasmalmstrom

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However, per C3.33 all Non-aerial units in the hex would be hit automatically...
All units are not hit automatically.

"All (including friendly) non-Aerial units in the target hex can be hit (even by WP), except for those immune as per 3.4".

This just say they can be hit - not that they are.


So I'm not really understanding your response here. Are you intimating that the firer may not have a LOS to other units at higher levels of a building? The rule is pretty specific to say hex and not location or are you saying that WP may somehow be fired at other than an ATT table? (Agreed that the placement of a WP grenade may have other consequences A24.31, but then the OP wasn't talking about WP grenades).
Example: A building with ground and 1st level - both of which are in LOS of a WP firing MTR. Enemy units in the building in both Locations - ground and Level 1. Unit at Level 1 is concealed. Assume a Base TH# of 9 and no TH DRM. Unit are ground level is "hit" on a DR of 9 or less, but the unit on level 1 is only only hit of 7 or less (+2 Concealed). So it the MTR rolls 8 or 9, the WP gets placed at ground level and the unit there takes the NMC (in this case due it both ie being hit and for being in a Location where the WP counter is placed). But a DR of 8 or 9 is not low enough to hit the concealed unit on level 1, so it does not have to take the NMC.
 

Eagle4ty

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All units are not hit automatically.


This just say they can be hit - not that they are.




Example: A building with ground and 1st level - both of which are in LOS of a WP firing MTR. Enemy units in the building in both Locations - ground and Level 1. Unit at Level 1 is concealed. Assume a Base TH# of 9 and no TH DRM. Unit are ground level is "hit" on a DR of 9 or less, but the unit on level 1 is only only hit of 7 or less (+2 Concealed). So it the MTR rolls 8 or 9, the WP gets placed at ground level and the unit there takes the NMC (in this case due it both ie being hit and for being in a Location where the WP counter is placed). But a DR of 8 or 9 is not low enough to hit the concealed unit on level 1, so it does not have to take the NMC.
Ah, yes.I guess I was looking at it from a different angle and trying to figure out what you were intimating. Agreed if some were concealed they would have to be hit on the ATT to be effected by the MC. Thanks for taking the time for the clarification.
 

jrv

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With various modifiers (concealment, target size, etc) some units in the same location may be hit and others not. Those units that are hit take the casualty MC; those units at the base level of the hex take the casualty MC even if not hit.

JR
 

Mr Incredible

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I personally like WP grenades.

Got a 1 in 6 chance of a CH compared to pissy WP ordnance with a 1 in 36 chance.
 

Vinnie

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If a CH is obtained versus multiple levels I assume you use random selection to find out which level takes it. Can that result in multiple levels having the CH?
 
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