CC with infantry and a vehicle in bypass

WuWei

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Imagine the following situation:



It's the Chinese turn. The two 337s advanced into the building with the Japanese 237. There also is a Chinese Type 22 AC in bypass of the building, stopped, BU, with both of its turrets facing the building.

What happens in the CCPh? Do the Chinese get the +1 BU, +2 vehicle to the Ambush roll? What is the sequence after that if nobody gets ambush?
 

klasmalmstrom

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What happens in the CCPh? Do the Chinese get the +1 BU, +2 vehicle to the Ambush roll?
Yes, and the Japanese will get a -1 drm to the Ambush dr since they are Stelthy.


What is the sequence after that if nobody gets ambush?
If no Ambush, then the non-vehicular (i.e., Japanse) player goes first. See A11.3-.34.
 

WuWei

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Let's see if I got this right:
Assume no ambush.
So now the Japanese has the option to:
1) Attack the AC
2) Attack one or the other of the squads
3) Attack both squads
Did I miss something? They can't attack both the squads and the vehicle.

For case 1: The Japanese has a CCV of 5 and a +4 DRM for the two escorting Chinese squads, so would have to roll a 2 for an unlikely kill.
For case 2: The Japanese has to attack in HtH, with 2:3->1:2, so the HtH Kill is 6, with a DRM of -1, because they are Japanese. So the roll is 7 for CR and 6 and below for elimination.
For case 3: The Japanese has to attack in HtH, with 2:6->1:4, so the HtH Kill is 5, with a DRM of -1, because they are Japanese. So the roll is 6 for CR and 5 and below for elimination.

Assume the Japanese rolls high enough for no effect. Now the Chinese can attack with 6 FP from squads and 4 FP from the AC, so 10:2->4:1, for a Kill # of 9 in case 1, and 11 in case 2 and 3.

Correct?
 

volgaG68

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Assume the Japanese rolls high enough for no effect. Now the Chinese can attack with 6 FP from squads and 4 FP from the AC, so 10:2->4:1, for a Kill # of 9 in case 1, and 11 in case 2 and 3.

Correct?
This is the only portion of it that is incorrect. The AC cannot combine its FP with that of the infantry, it would be two separate attacks. Vehicle and Infantry.
 

WuWei

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That makes sense. Thanks!
 

jrv

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For case 1: The Japanese has a CCV of 5 and a +4 DRM for the two escorting Chinese squads, so would have to roll a 2 for an unlikely kill.
The vehicle is in bypass, which gives the Japanese the street fighting -1 DRM. That makes the net DRM +3. Because the attacker is a halfsquad, he is still looking for an unlikely kill. If it had been a full squad, a 4-6 on the unlikely kill dr would have been an immobilization.

JR
 

jrv

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For case 2: The Japanese has to attack in HtH
For case 3: The Japanese has to attack in HtH
The Japanese player can (/must) only declare H2H if he is the ATTACKER or if he ambushes (with other caveats that are n/a here). Since this is the Chinese turn, the Chinese player is the ATTACKER. If the Chinese player has a dare death squad involved, he must declare H2H as if Japanese. Otherwise the CC in the Chinese turn will be normal CC, not H2H.

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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For case 1: The Japanese has a CCV of 5 and a +4 DRM for the two escorting Chinese squads, so would have to roll a 2 for an unlikely kill.
A HS has a CCV of 4 - not 5. But don't forget it might try to create a Tank-Hunter Hero as well, per G1.421, which is done just after rolling for Ambush.
 

jrv

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A HS has a CCV of 4 - not 5. But don't forget it might try to create a Tank-Hunter Hero as well, per G1.421, which is done just after rolling for Ambush.
A hs has a CCV of 3. A crew has a CCV of 4. The THH is a good idea and perhaps should be attempted, but unless it rolls ATMM it is not a great threat because of the two escorting squads. Depending on the timeframe and the OB the Japanese may not be eligible for many THH, and this opportunity may not be the best choice for one of them.

JR
 

bprobst

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CC is always sequential whenever a vehicle is involved (A11.31). Being in bypass is irrelevant.
 

WuWei

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A hs has a CCV of 3. A crew has a CCV of 4. The THH is a good idea and perhaps should be attempted, but unless it rolls ATMM it is not a great threat because of the two escorting squads. Depending on the timeframe and the OB the Japanese may not be eligible for many THH, and this opportunity may not be the best choice for one of them.
The question arose during BoF1 The Marco Polo Bridge Incident, so it's 1937 and the Japanese have a maximum of 2 THH.
 

Mr Incredible

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I think the Chinese have a reasonable chance losing both squads before they know what hit them.

72.2% chance of being ambushed (the HS can withdraw right away if it wants) and then if it sticks around and enters HtH then a 41.7% of killing both for a 30% chance.

Been done that way plenty of times before.
 

jrv

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The question arose during BoF1 The Marco Polo Bridge Incident, so it's 1937 and the Japanese have a maximum of 2 THH.
In that case the Japanese may want to get the ambush, kill the two squads, then exit the CC to the next hex of the building. In the next MPh roll for the THH. Banzai. Get the ATMM and kill the heck out of the AC. That should leave the Chinese player checking his Garmin to see if maybe there's another bridge that he can take that doesn't have quite as high a toll.

JR
 

Vinnie

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Don't forget the AV's cc attack will be against the HS CCV of 3 rather than its FP of 2.
 

von Marwitz

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In that case the Japanese may want to get the ambush, kill the two squads, then exit the CC to the next hex of the building. In the next MPh roll for the THH. Banzai. Get the ATMM and kill the heck out of the AC. That should leave the Chinese player checking his Garmin to see if maybe there's another bridge that he can take that doesn't have quite as high a toll.

JR
This is vicious!
On top of it, while checking his Garmin, the Chinese will find out to their chagrin, that the Japanese have stolen the batteries... :mad:

von Marwitz
 

Genosse Gelb

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Assuming the Japanese HS ambushes and kills the two Chinese Squads, why would it be allowed to exit the CC? I thought it would be either/or after succeeding with an ambush.
 

Mr Incredible

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1.41 AMBUSH WITHDRAWAL: Any Infantry (unless pinned/berserk/ Disrupted) that is part of a force which has qualified for Ambush has the option to decline CC altogether, prior to CC resolution, by immediate withdrawal into an Accessible Location or may withdraw from CC automatically after resolving all CC attacks by and against it, but only before Melee occurs.
 
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