Da Paul Challenge

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Justiciar

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OOoooh, so you have your Russian judge's hat on then?
Can't wait to see how JRV scores the card...
Paul you best weigh as your own best barrister here...the west side of the pond seems against you.
 

Justiciar

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JR always scores in his own court... it's far easier for him to make goals that way ;)
Agree. This is the area where his fine integrity breaks down for some reason...poor man. Can't figure quite why though...

Anyways, we all know how to score on the JRV scale now...
 

Paul M. Weir

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Your honour, I plead unfamiliarity with the internal details of the unbuilt proposed E-25 and E-10 designs. The apparent truncation of the gun barrel on the drawing was a confusing factor. I place myself at the mercy of the court.

The E series were an attempt to unify German AFV construction. There would be just as many different models (E-5,10,25,50,75) but using as many common components as possible (the E-100 not so much). The E-50 and E-75 were intended to be almost the same but with different armour levels and possibly a different gun to replace the Panther and Tiger II. Similarly the E-10 and E-25 were very much a pair with the same layout and design features but to be built with different length, armour and gun.

All replaced existing suspensions (Pz IV, Hetzer leaf spring, Pz III, Panther, Tigers torsion bar) with Belleville conical spring external units and the same road wheels. The advantages were less hull machining, less need for specialist alloys for torsion bars, much easier to repair or replace in the field. Similarly many other fittings were common. So while the bulk armour structure would be unique, the many fittings which really add up in cost (money or hours), would be common keeping the cost down. Remember the Pz III and Pz IV built at the same time shared components like visors, cupolas, turret bins, tool clasps and tracks.

At least that was the intention. How much of that commonality would have survived testing and production is another matter.
 

Philippe D.

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Found it thanks to Google, so I suppose that doesn't count. Note, however, that "strangest tank ever" on Google turns up a lot of strange pictures, and this one doesn't appear among the first :)
 

Philippe D.

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I'm not really in the race for this, I wouldn't know a Tiger from a Sherman. OK, I probably would now that I've seen some for real in the Saumur museum, but you get the idea. So I know perfectly well that Google is my only chance at knowing what one of these is before someone who knows about these things posts the answer.

But I admit that the order in which Google shows pictures for "strangest tank ever" is questionable - yours should appear sooner, even though the competition is pretty fierce in this category.
 

witchbottles

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I'm not really in the race for this, I wouldn't know a Tiger from a Sherman. OK, I probably would now that I've seen some for real in the Saumur museum, but you get the idea. So I know perfectly well that Google is my only chance at knowing what one of these is before someone who knows about these things posts the answer.

But I admit that the order in which Google shows pictures for "strangest tank ever" is questionable - yours should appear sooner, even though the competition is pretty fierce in this category.
The Wemple tank from NZ made that image list in Google, nice to see - it was a contender just a few pages back :)
Love this little guy, however, moreso because so little is known about it :D
 

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View attachment 2893

A chance for Paul to redeem himself :)
An improvised tank built on a tracked tractor (STZ-3/5?) chassis by the Soviets. Unarmoured steel and/or wood. This one is armed with a NT 45mm m32/m38 AT gun (45L). Similar had old T-37/T-38/T-26 m31 MG turrets. Though not the only location to make such lash-ups, Odessa's were the most famous. The Odessa tanks were nicknamed Na Ispug (NI) or terror tanks.
 

Paul M. Weir

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maybe some kind of penalty for restricted vision blocks, as per the descriptions I've read on it? say a ROF 2 or perhaps a ST rather than a T, or even IFE 12.
I'm inclined to leave it as it is.

While it was never built and even today new equipment often fails to live up to promise, as an AA tank it would have had to have a fairly fast traverse and elevation to be accepted. So I agree with the T part.

While the 2cm FlaK and FlaK 18/36 3.7cm FlaK were magazine fed (10 round for AFVs, 20 round for FlaK), the 3cm MK 103 was belt fed with practical RoF for the 3.7cm of roughly 150 r/min vs 3cm with 400 r/min. A further wrinkle is that while the 3.7cm FlaK used fairly conventional shells, the 3cm used Minengeschoß/Minengeschoss (mine shell) shells which had a particularly high HE content. So I would rate the MK 103 as superior to the FlaK 36 as an anti-personnel weapon. So I'm very much inclined to keep the ROF at 3 and the IFE at 16.

I have not seen any mention of AP ammunition for the MK 103, only APCR. I'm not saying there wasn't any, just have not seen any. Wiki gives an APCR penetration of 75–95mm @ 90° and 300m. That would work out at the lower end of the range for 500m, say 70-80mm for an APCR TK of 12 or 13?

So while the exact TK could be debated a point either way, the T, [3], (16) are fairly solid in my opinion.

As for the last, I'll leave you scratching your kugeln in a corner.
 
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