Temp counter error collection thread

[bprobst]

Further to Free French counters ... the US-coloured M5A1 light tank (found in French - Veh - Lend-Lease) has the "Red TH#s <44" note. That note is NA for the M5A1 (it is not in use with the FF before 1944).

Somewhat more oddly, the green vehicle counters in the Lend-Lease tray conceal as French (i.e., blue). It's only a visual thing but it does look a bit odd since relatively rarely will a scenario involving the FF use any other blue counters. However, since virtually all FF scenarios use British counters, it does mean that (for instance) a FF squad (khaki) in the back of a lend-lease half-track (green) will not benefit from the ht's (blue) concealment. I guess that's just a consequence of the depiction of the FF in ASL ... and more generally, an issue in VASL whenever mixed-nationality stacks are involved (e.g., partisan squads using British LMGs, and so forth). It would be a nice VASL improvement if the top concealment counter in a stack concealed everything beneath it regardless of counter colour (with the proviso that it remains possible to unconceal any individual counter, in cases where that would be necessary).

 

[zgrose]

The British/Free French items are not in beta1 but I took a stab at cleaning up the Japanese counters.

 

[zgrose]

Beta2 probably will not have any additional counter changes but I'm targeting one more pass to attempt to close out this thread's set. So last call for counter stuff to get into 6.4.1

 

[zgrose]

The "British" (actually Free French for this purpose) MG/MTR counter tray is missing the M2(a) [60mm MTR] (French Ordnance Note 22). (The French 60mm MTR counter in British colours will do in a pinch, of course, but the counter values are slightly different.)
(Note that the physical British-coloured US MTR counters are supplied in WoA/FKaC, not CdG.)

I'm looking through my British plano (which should be FKaC counters) and I see a MTR(a) 60mm M2 that looks just like the British colored MTR(a) in the French counter tray in VASL. If that isn't the correct counter, can you tell me all the values on the counter so I can dig around some more.

Similarly, the M1(a) [81mm MTR] also appears to be missing from the British trays (both MG/MTR and Gun).

Is that this one?

 

[bprobst]

I'm looking through my British plano (which should be FKaC counters) and I see a MTR(a) 60mm M2 that looks just like the British colored MTR(a) in the French counter tray in VASL.

Your counter tray does not look the same as mine. (VASL 6.4.0.) You have the M2(a) [60mm], I have the (British) Airborne 51mm. ???

Is that this one?

No, that is the British-coloured French 81mm MTR. The counter I'm referring to is the British-coloured version of the American 81mm MTR (different values). If you look in the American tray you'll see the green version of this counter, but the British-coloured one (labelled "M1(a)") is nowhere to be found, so far as I can tell.

(And just to be extra-clear, neither of the missing MTR counters are in my British SW or Gun trays either.)

I would be very interested to learn why your French SW tray has different content to mine!

 

[bprobst]

Just to be extra-extra clear, both the British and the Free French require the British-coloured M2(a) [60mm] and M1(a) [81mm] counters in their respective weapon trays.

 

[zgrose]

I would be very interested to learn why your French SW tray has different content to mine!

Can you move all your extensions out and try again to get a "clean" tray.

No, that is the British-coloured French 81mm MTR. The counter I'm referring to is the British-coloured version of the American 81mm MTR (different values).

Can you name off the values or scan the counter you are expecting to see. Unless I'm mis-reading Chapter H, without the *actual* counter in front of me it is really hard to know what the correct values are. I know what the correct color is... (edit) I couldn't find an 81mm MTR in my British counter mix at all.(/edit)

Just to be extra-extra clear, both the British and the Free French require the British-coloured M2(a) [60mm] and M1(a) [81mm] counters in their respective weapon trays.

I'm not sure I see the value in duplicating the counters in multiple locations... Let's just get the counters into the module first and take it from there.

 

[bprobst]

Can you move all your extensions out and try again to get a "clean" tray.

Hmm. Did so and the tray has the contents as in your image above (i.e., the 60mm MTR(a) is there; it's also in the British tray!). I understand how an extension adds counters, how does it overwrite them?

Here's the list of the extensions I use ... I don't see why any of them would be messing with the British/French SW tray:

Can you name off the values or scan the counter you are expecting to see. Unless I'm mis-reading Chapter H, without the *actual* counter in front of me it is really hard to know what the correct values are. I know what the correct color is... (edit) I couldn't find an 81mm MTR in my British counter mix at all.(/edit)

OK, my apologies. I was a bit confused. French Ordnance note 22 says it came with Yanks, but now I realise that they mean the American counter was provided there (obviously). There is no physical British-coloured M1(a) 81mm counter (that I'm aware of).

I'm not sure I see the value in duplicating the counters in multiple locations

To make them easier to find when you go looking for them? Also, there seems to be a desire on someone's part (not sure who) to make sure that Free French equipment/vehicles conceals with a blue ? counter ... if that was a valid thing to do (and I'm not sure that it is, but I'll listen to arguments) then that would be a good reason to duplicate counters across different nationality trays. (I.E., the reason why white counters like cycles are found in every nationality tray ... so they conceal with the right colour.) E.G., the M5A1 LT is found in both the US and French counter trays, and the only difference between them is their concealment colour.

 

[zgrose]

To make them easier to find when you go looking for them?

French gear in French trays seems nice and consistent to me, but this other point you make...

Also, there seems to be a desire on someone's part (not sure who) to make sure that Free French equipment/vehicles conceals with a blue ? counter ... if that was a valid thing to do (and I'm not sure that it is, but I'll listen to arguments) then that would be a good reason to duplicate counters across different nationality trays. (I.E., the reason why white counters like cycles are found in every nationality tray ... so they conceal with the right colour.) E.G., the M5A1 LT is found in both the US and French counter trays, and the only difference between them is their concealment colour.

Ya, if we need a separate nationality tag (i.e. for concealing), that would have to be a different counter. Which isn't really the same counter in two places, in VASSAL-ese.

I understand how an extension adds counters, how does it overwrite them?

I'd have to guess that there are 2 counters with the same ID and VASSAL is just picking the first/last one. Just a guess tho, I haven't dug around in the internals enough to know.

If I had to pick a probable source of the issue, I'd guess the VASL4*.mdx extensions but that's just a pure guess. You have about 7x more extensions than I do, unless you play a lot of obscure scenarios, you might want to consider starting fresh and adding extensions as you need them. YMMV.

 

[bprobst]

French gear in French trays seems nice and consistent to me

British and American SW/Guns/Vehicles are French gear, if you're Free French, but it's not something I'd fight anyone over.

If I had to pick a probable source of the issue, I'd guess the VASL4*.mdx extensions but that's just a pure guess.

I know what all the ext are (supposed) to do except for those VASL4* extensions, which have hit puberty and are getting ready to start dating. This is probably a stupid question, but do they still have a function in VASL6? Used to be that they were needed for VASL5, and I can't recall ever seeing any statements that they weren't equally necessary for VASL6, which is why I've kept them around. They aren't marked "obsolete" on the VASL.info download page. Should they be?

 

[zgrose]

"Allows VASL5 to display VASL4 & early VASL5 counters" Sounds obsolete to me since you aren't *in* VASL5 and looking over the contents of the file, I would say it's pretty safe to say not needed for VASL6. It is chock full of old unit images and stuff.

 

[bprobst]

Well, I removed the three VASL4* extensions and the M2(a) 60mm MTR came back into the French (and British) SW counter trays so it appears that one of them was certainly at fault. I'm satisfied, unless something else I actually need has disappeared, which I guess I'll discover (or not) in the fullness of time.

 

[Will Fleming]

Found a few 'funky' looking French guns. VASL 6.4.1b2.

MTR missing HE only overstripe, range, small target, box on ROF.
47L ATG missing AP only understripe, circled B#, box on ROF, small target.
75 ART missing box on ROF.
65 INF missing HE only overtripe, B#, box on ROF, small target.

Seems there are probably some others.

 

[zgrose]

I think those FR {something} generic counters are intended to be modified via the shortcut menu for their specific values.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I got a freed prisoner running around today.

.. and we right clicked and realized that the "CX" option is not available.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Hi,
It could be an older error than linked to 6.4.0 version, but the German SdKfz 10/5 counter (the partially armored ht which came with VotG) has no TCA change possibility.

It still hasn't.

 

[zgrose]

It still hasn't.

There are two. Use SPA > AAht > SdKfz 10/5.

The ht > SdKfz 10/5 counter needs to be replaced with the better definition over in the SPA.

 

[zgrose]

I got a freed prisoner running around today.

.. and we right clicked and realized that the "CX" option is not available.

I'm OK with that. The context menu is out of control as is.