(Location Vote) Asia Pacific ASL Open 2018

Where do you prefer the 2018 Asia Pacific a ASL Tournament to be?

  • Tokyo

    Votes: 11 44.0%
  • Singapore

    Votes: 11 44.0%
  • Siem Reap

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Mister T

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Given that Siem Reap was after all a not so Accessible location (looking at attendees' number), Tokyo and Singapour stand the best chance of attracting people due to their large international airport.

Oahu could appeal to Americans, but it is pretty remote, in the middle of the Pacific. Are there good flight connections to/from Asia/Australia?

If the purpose of the event is to attract more Chinese players as a source of ASL potential growth (this is a 'if' one may challenge), i am not sure they would be so keen to play a WW2 game in Tokyo given the occasional flare-up of tensions between the two countries, often rooted in history.

Singapore is run by Chinese, and efficiently run, with some WW2 historical sites, so it ticks many boxes.

I hope this post will be deemed constructive.:p
 

hongkongwargamer

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Given that Siem Reap was after all a not so Accessible location (looking at attendees' number), Tokyo and Singapour stand the best chance of attracting people due to their large international airport.

Oahu could appeal to Americans, but it is pretty remote, in the middle of the Pacific. Are there good flight connections to/from Asia/Australia?

If the purpose of the event is to attract more Chinese players as a source of ASL potential growth (this is a 'if' one may challenge), i am not sure they would be so keen to play a WW2 game in Tokyo given the occasional flare-up of tensions between the two countries, often rooted in history.

Singapore is run by Chinese, and efficiently run, with some WW2 historical sites, so it ticks many boxes.

I hope this post will be deemed constructive.:p
Dude. You can come by. You go to tournaments all over. Yes?
 

Aaron Cleavin

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I'm hoping to go to ASLOK in 2018, so would not be very likely to go to the A-P event, but would vote for Singapore of the three sites mentioned.

What would be more favourable (for my situation anyway) would be Oahu (which would include Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Aviation Museum) if there is someone there to get things together.
Josh Seamon is in Oahu right?
 

volgaG68

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I can't possibly speak for Bruce, but I did spot an underlying grain of reason in his post. It is something that was on the periphery of my radar as well from personal experience. That is, organizers (of any tournament) should not choose a vacation destination where ASL will also be played, but choose a place for the maximum amount of players to convene and play that also has historical or sight-seeing merits. In short, always have the horse in front of the cart, never the other way around; don't even let the horse walk beside the cart. The horse is ASL play, the cart is the historical/tourist nature of the venue. If you will allow me to indulge in the personal example from which I speak...

I have 6 brothers and 6 sisters [:eek:] and it is impossible to keep up with visiting them all as we are spread across the US. We decided to have a Sibling Reunion every other year, individuals taking turns hosting it in their town/city. The first was held by a brother in MO where there was river canoeing nearby. The second by a brother in OKC with a fabulous zoo in town. The third by a sister in NM with white-water rafting nearby. The primary purpose of these reunions was to spend the weekend visiting with each other, anything offered in the host area as a group activity was simply icing on the cake. These first three were almost universally attended with the second one netting the only picture ever of all 7 of us adult brothers together at one time.

The fourth was held by a sister who lives in TX, right below the OK line. They have a large home, property, and hotels nearby, but decided to hold it at an oceanside resort on the southern coast of TX, many hours away from their home. This one was markedly less attended. The next was hosted by a sister in DC who wanted to hold it at a resort in FL!!! There were so few RSVPs to this idea that it was cancelled. Does anyone see where this is going? Siblings were starting to place the vacation destination before the primary purpose of reuniting and visiting. With many of us having limited vacation time, limited finances, or large broods, these fancy resort reunions were completely impractical. Like one brother with 5 teenagers said, 'If I am going to lay out "vacation-style money", I'm going someplace we all really want to go see. These are just supposed to be reunions, not our one family vacation a year!'. What started as 3 days of visiting at the host's home, BBQing, brothers vs sisters volleyball in the backyard, etc, returning to mid-priced hotels late at night, and reconvening in the morning for more, slowly turned into 3 days of pricey events and itineraries, activities, top-tier resort hotels and markedly less group visiting.

I am not saying this is where the Asia-Pac Tourney mindset is heading, and I have the utmost faith in Jackson and his confrere to make the right choices; but I would be lying if I said the combination of Siem Reap and Bruce's post did not give me a hint of what the Asia-Pac tourney could possibly become if it begins to run loose like our sibling reunions did. Another parallel I give pause to mention is the sibling in-fighting that arose between those who placed the horse before the cart and those who placed the cart before the horse. Neither side is really 'wrong' in what they want, the only question that must be asked is 'Are we honoring the original intention of the gathering?' IF I had the vacation time, I would support Singapore, Tokyo, or Hong Kong, as that would likely yield the largest attendances and encountering the most new friends and gaming styles.....and a LOT of competition!

I think the Asia-Pac tourney is in good hands, just keep on keeping your eye on the prize.....a large, well-attended tourney.

Just my two cents...
 

hongkongwargamer

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Thanks mate.

Please note that I am not the organiser. Actually, I have never been the organiser. I am just the front man. Tons of people put in a lot of work to make these tourneys happen.

From some very quiet beginnings, we now have situation where we have 3 enthusiastic organisers each advocating a location.

It's a great situation!

We don't have the luxury of putting a tourney anywhere we choose. Where ever the location may be, it has to have a team of organizers willing to set it up, it has to have a viable cost base, it has to have local players.

Plus it has to be a place where tourney attendees from out of country are willing to go, otherwise it will be nothing more than a local tournament.

Contrary to what some folks might be looking for : I haven't put Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand or Hawaii on the list. We ain't picking vacation spots.

Again, we want to give people a voice. Please vote if you haven't yet.

Rgds Jack

I can't possibly speak for Bruce, but I did spot an underlying grain of reason in his post. It is something that was on the periphery of my radar as well from personal experience. That is, organizers (of any tournament) should not choose a vacation destination where ASL will also be played, but choose a place for the maximum amount of players to convene and play that also has historical or sight-seeing merits. In short, always have the horse in front of the cart, never the other way around; don't even let the horse walk beside the cart. The horse is ASL play, the cart is the historical/tourist nature of the venue. If you will allow me to indulge in the personal example from which I speak...

I have 6 brothers and 6 sisters [:eek:] and it is impossible to keep up with visiting them all as we are spread across the US. We decided to have a Sibling Reunion every other year, individuals taking turns hosting it in their town/city. The first was held by a brother in MO where there was river canoeing nearby. The second by a brother in OKC with a fabulous zoo in town. The third by a sister in NM with white-water rafting nearby. The primary purpose of these reunions was to spend the weekend visiting with each other, anything offered in the host area as a group activity was simply icing on the cake. These first three were almost universally attended with the second one netting the only picture ever of all 7 of us adult brothers together at one time.

The fourth was held by a sister who lives in TX, right below the OK line. They have a large home, property, and hotels nearby, but decided to hold it at an oceanside resort on the southern coast of TX, many hours away from their home. This one was markedly less attended. The next was hosted by a sister in DC who wanted to hold it at a resort in FL!!! There were so few RSVPs to this idea that it was cancelled. Does anyone see where this is going? Siblings were starting to place the vacation destination before the primary purpose of reuniting and visiting. With many of us having limited vacation time, limited finances, or large broods, these fancy resort reunions were completely impractical. Like one brother with 5 teenagers said, 'If I am going to lay out "vacation-style money", I'm going someplace we all really want to go see. These are just supposed to be reunions, not our one family vacation a year!'. What started as 3 days of visiting at the host's home, BBQing, brothers vs sisters volleyball in the backyard, etc, returning to mid-priced hotels late at night, and reconvening in the morning for more, slowly turned into 3 days of pricey events and itineraries, activities, top-tier resort hotels and markedly less group visiting.

I am not saying this is where the Asia-Pac Tourney mindset is heading, and I have the utmost faith in Jackson and his confrere to make the right choices; but I would be lying if I said the combination of Siem Reap and Bruce's post did not give me a hint of what the Asia-Pac tourney could possibly become if it begins to run loose like our sibling reunions did. Another parallel I give pause to mention is the sibling in-fighting that arose between those who placed the horse before the cart and those who placed the cart before the horse. Neither side is really 'wrong' in what they want, the only question that must be asked is 'Are we honoring the original intention of the gathering?' IF I had the vacation time, I would support Singapore, Tokyo, or Hong Kong, as that would likely yield the largest attendances and encountering the most new friends and gaming styles.....and a LOT of competition!

I think the Asia-Pac tourney is in good hands, just keep on keeping your eye on the prize.....a large, well-attended tourney.

Just my two cents...
 
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Aaron Cleavin

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but I would be lying if I said the combination of Siem Reap and Bruce's post did not give me a hint of what the Asia-Pac tourney could possibly become if it begins to run loose like our sibling reunions did.
Siem Reap was insanely beautiful and frontier, originally the plan was to be there for just on 73 hours and spend the first afternoon visiting Angkor Wat. Unfortunately our plane broke and thus we were four hours late and in the 69 hours there there was to much ASL in the day
to make visiting Angkor What a possibility : much regretted. So the ASL and camaraderie definitely took center stage. I think Siem Reap was a great choice and a shame more people couldn't make it. The combination of exoticness and low accommodation / food costs made it
a definite winner in my books

OTOH in my 11th visit to ASLOK over a 20 year period with each visit from 6-10 days I visited the Rock and Roll hall of fame for the first time in 2016, so no danger of the wilds of Cleveland distracting from the ASL :)
 

hongkongwargamer

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Yeah well .. getting my butt kicked all over the place by these fine gentlemen took centerstage for me. I didn't see the Angkor Wat either!

It was a strange conversation when I got back to the office.
"Hey how's Angkor Wat?"​
"I didn't see it"
"Huh? I thought you went to Cambodia?"​
"Well .. there's this boardgame tournament..."
"Oh yeah, boardgames huh? Boardgames really? (*snicker *snicker) WELL WELL WELL .. how did your BOARDGAME go?"​
"SHUT UP"

Siem Reap was insanely beautiful and frontier, originally the plan was to be there for just on 73 hours and spend the first afternoon visiting Angkor Wat. Unfortunately our plane broke and thus we were four hours late and in the 69 hours there there was to much ASL in the day
to make visiting Angkor What a possibility : much regretted. So the ASL and camaraderie definitely took center stage. I think Siem Reap was a great choice and a shame more people couldn't make it. The combination of exoticness and low accommodation / food costs made it
a definite winner in my books

OTOH in my 11th visit to ASLOK over a 20 year period with each visit from 6-10 days I visited the Rock and Roll hall of fame for the first time in 2016, so no danger of the wilds of Cleveland distracting from the ASL :)
 

Mister T

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Contrary to what some folks might be looking for : I haven't put Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand or Hawaii on the list. We ain't picking vacation spots.
HK does not strike me as a vacation spot. It's not Phuket. It's more like Singapore in many ways.

Anyway, stay safe it's typhoon day.
 

Aaron Cleavin

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Singapore is run by Chinese, and efficiently run, with some WW2 historical sites, so it ticks many boxes.
Singapore is run (for the most part) by people of largely Chinese ethnicity and descent. Which is not the same as being run by the Chinese: I may be splitting hairs but the distinction is an important one

It is however indeed very efficiently run, and has some interesting WWII sites: and your commentary was constructive.
 

Mister T

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Singapore is run (for the most part) by people of largely Chinese ethnicity and descent. Which is not the same as being run by the Chinese: I may be splitting hairs but the distinction is an important one
I've never implied that SG was run by China or the Chinese government. But probably my point was lost in translation.

In his latest annual address, SG PM asked people to eat brown rice instead of white rice to fight obesity. Speech very focused on the little things that matter for the layman and delivered in a charming and funny way. Impressive. Typical authoritarian yet benevolent way of governing.
 

sneo

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Singapore is run (for the most part) by people of largely Chinese ethnicity and descent. Which is not the same as being run by the Chinese: I may be splitting hairs but the distinction is an important one

It is however indeed very efficiently run, and has some interesting WWII sites: and your commentary was constructive.
I would not worry too much on the differentiation as we are mostly Han Chinese by race. if differentiation is required, we do so by labeling one as either China Chinese (Zhen Wang), Hong Konger (Jack) or Singaporean Chinese (myself). of course, there is Singlish way of labeling but it may sound offensive to the other parties.

I've never implied that SG was run by China or the Chinese government. But probably my point was lost in translation.

In his latest annual address, SG PM asked people to eat brown rice instead of white rice to fight obesity. Speech very focused on the little things that matter for the layman and delivered in a charming and funny way. Impressive. Typical authoritarian yet benevolent way of governing.
ello! Thank you for the kind comments of our PM. unfortunately a small vocal group in SG thinks otherwise despite 70% voting for him. We are a multiracial nation, so, everyone plays a part in our efficiency.

rationally, I preferred TKY because
1. I would rather have the tournament held in different locations in Asia before rotating back to SGP. In fact, I would have voted Hong Kong if its on the list.
2. probably higher number of local players.
3. "easier" flights for non-Asians? I'm not too sure of this as I am very pampered by Singapore's efficient airline and airport.

personally, I preferred SGP because
1. I wouldn't need to "suffer" flying and can still be back home on time with my wife daily.

I voted for TKY because one shouldn't be just thinking of oneself. :)
 
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witchbottles

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on the very off chance it might matter - wouldn't somewhere in Australia be considered as "Asia- Pacific" for the purposes of the tournament, and I am readily certain flights and travel arrangements are quite easy to coordinate from any number of other locations for attending.

Another interesting idea might be Manila. I have a client whose business takes him there 3 x a year. BTW I am personally all for "let's pick a spot and then get the details in line" as a routine, rather than " who wants to be the volunteer this time - you and you? ok we can do it here, or there- routine.

Bruce will adequately point out it means naught what I might think on the subject.....save him the ranting tirade by pointing this out beforehand.
 

hongkongwargamer

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Thanks mate.

We have 3 groups of organizers willing and able to set up our 2018 tournament.

It just so happens they are in 3 locations.

Rgds Jack

PS Siem Reap worked out brilliantly but last year (absolute personal read) we picked a location first and we saddled one player with the responsibility. Hence not taking that approach esp when there are 3 enthusiastic groups of organizers this time.
 
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Aaron Cleavin

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on the very off chance it might matter - wouldn't somewhere in Australia be considered as "Asia- Pacific" for the purposes of the tournament, and I am readily certain flights and travel arrangements are quite easy to coordinate from any number of other locations for attending.

Another interesting idea might be Manila. I have a client whose business takes him there 3 x a year. BTW I am personally all for "let's pick a spot and then get the details in line" as a routine, rather than " who wants to be the volunteer this time - you and you? ok we can do it here, or there- routine.

Bruce will adequately point out it means naught what I might think on the subject.....save him the ranting tirade by pointing this out beforehand.
Australia is actually a bloody long way for people from the rest of Asia to get to and given there are three regularly scheduled tournies there already seems better to focus on Asia-Asia

(Anyone wanting to come to CANCON (Late Jan), JUNOBEAR (Early June) or the revived ANZACON (Around Easter I think) do let the Ockers know
 

Aaron Cleavin

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I would not worry too much on the differentiation as we are mostly Han Chinese by race. if differentiation is required, we do so by labeling one as either China Chinese (Zhen Wang), Hong Konger (Jack) or Singaporean Chinese (myself). of course, there is Singlish way of labeling but it may sound offensive to the other parties.
Singapore though now has 21% of marriages being interracial, so it is only going to get more complicated!
 

bprobst

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(Anyone wanting to come to CANCON (Late Jan), JUNOBEAR (Early June) or the revived ANZACON (Around Easter I think) do let the Ockers know
The clue is in the name, Aaron, unless you're in the habit of buying your remembrance pins on Good Friday .... In any case, though, it's dead again. There was no ANZACon this year, and I'd be surprised if there's any effort made to run one next year.

I would suggest that a hypothetical Australian-based tournament intended as an Asia-Pacific event would be a completely different event than the regular Australian tournaments. Firstly, CanCon would be an appalling choice -- because the entire CanCon organisation (which, for those unaware, is separate to the folks who look after the ASL tournament) is IMO very visitor-unfriendly, both in terms of cost and organisation. Overseas visitors would be fighting tooth-and-nail for accommodation with a couple of thousand other people who wouldn't know ASL if they tripped over it (and could care less), just for the privilege of being squeezed into a corner and being awarded cheap tat as trophies. I could go on, but I hope that you see my point. I guess a Junobear could be configured to have a special international flavour one year, with special effort made to encourage and care for visitors -- you'd be in a much better position to judge than I; but I think you'd agree that would be out of the norm. In my experience Australian ASL tournaments will happily welcome visitors who have travelled far but make zero effort to encourage them to do so -- the exact opposite of what the A-P tournament should be all about.

I think the reality is that any Australian location could be the site of an Asia-Pacific tournament, and I'd go further and say that at some point there should be one. Either Australia is part of the region or it isn't. As individuals obviously we're always going to have limitations about where we can travel to, but as a group all locations should be equally valid. Every nation should have its opportunity to shine. Jamie and I thought we had the makings of a tournament here in Melbourne, but Alan refused to even entertain the idea when it was brought up in Manila. So much for the concept of submitting bids that interested parties could choose between, I guess. (Not that our idea was so advanced that we could call it a "bid".)

It's all very well to say that Australia is a "long way to travel" but from where I'm sitting so is everywhere else. Siem Reap isn't "just next door" for most of us, neither was Manila; neither is Singapore or Tokyo. If you happen to live there, great, if you don't, you have to travel. The number of flight hours is trivial compared to the necessary expense and effort required to get your ASL gear onto a 'plane in the first place. Anyone who isn't prepared to put in the travel time probably doesn't have that much interest in an A-P tournament to begin with! No site is ever going to make everyone happy; the best you can do is put together a bid that will work and put it forward for the vote. Do we really want to foster an environment that only bids from certain countries can ever be considered?
 

hongkongwargamer

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Cool - say you are willing & able and we will add you into the choices for everyone to vote on.


The clue is in the name, Aaron, unless you're in the habit of buying your remembrance pins on Good Friday .... In any case, though, it's dead again. There was no ANZACon this year, and I'd be surprised if there's any effort made to run one next year.

I would suggest that a hypothetical Australian-based tournament intended as an Asia-Pacific event would be a completely different event than the regular Australian tournaments. Firstly, CanCon would be an appalling choice -- because the entire CanCon organisation (which, for those unaware, is separate to the folks who look after the ASL tournament) is IMO very visitor-unfriendly, both in terms of cost and organisation. Overseas visitors would be fighting tooth-and-nail for accommodation with a couple of thousand other people who wouldn't know ASL if they tripped over it (and could care less), just for the privilege of being squeezed into a corner and being awarded cheap tat as trophies. I could go on, but I hope that you see my point. I guess a Junobear could be configured to have a special international flavour one year, with special effort made to encourage and care for visitors -- you'd be in a much better position to judge than I; but I think you'd agree that would be out of the norm. In my experience Australian ASL tournaments will happily welcome visitors who have travelled far but make zero effort to encourage them to do so -- the exact opposite of what the A-P tournament should be all about.

I think the reality is that any Australian location could be the site of an Asia-Pacific tournament, and I'd go further and say that at some point there should be one. Either Australia is part of the region or it isn't. As individuals obviously we're always going to have limitations about where we can travel to, but as a group all locations should be equally valid. Every nation should have its opportunity to shine. Jamie and I thought we had the makings of a tournament here in Melbourne, but Alan refused to even entertain the idea when it was brought up in Manila. So much for the concept of submitting bids that interested parties could choose between, I guess. (Not that our idea was so advanced that we could call it a "bid".)

It's all very well to say that Australia is a "long way to travel" but from where I'm sitting so is everywhere else. Siem Reap isn't "just next door" for most of us, neither was Manila; neither is Singapore or Tokyo. If you happen to live there, great, if you don't, you have to travel. The number of flight hours is trivial compared to the necessary expense and effort required to get your ASL gear onto a 'plane in the first place. Anyone who isn't prepared to put in the travel time probably doesn't have that much interest in an A-P tournament to begin with! No site is ever going to make everyone happy; the best you can do is put together a bid that will work and put it forward for the vote. Do we really want to foster an environment that only bids from certain countries can ever be considered?
 
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