Paul John
Senior Member
It's perverse that way!ASL - it's ability to mirror the ABSURDITY of life.
It's perverse that way!ASL - it's ability to mirror the ABSURDITY of life.
Very nice and accurate observations.That has to be one of the (many) great things about ASL - it's ability to mirror the ABSURDITY of life. That's something that most games just can't capture.
It's SO perverted! FZIt's perverse that way!
Hm, can one do that?I ‘magically’ transformed a pair of small ? counters to a pair of big ? counters and ‘drove’ that towards the other guy’s sniper.
I don't buy either of these premises. I referenced your example from the Perry Sez Q+A thread in the 5/8" Dummy stack thread I started. If you could please explain your reasoning as to why you think your example is correct, how you arrived at the MP allowance and switching between " vehicle " types as legitimate and legal I for one would be very interested.Hm, can one do that?
One can have a 5/8" Dummy and pretend to be a Jeep (i.e. Truck) in one turn and a Sherman (i.e. fully tracked vehicle) in the next and move the Dummy accordingly - provided it remains out of enemy LOS throughout.
But I am not sure if it is possible to switch the size of Dummy Counters during the game (i.e. between 1/2" and 5/8"). By gut feeling without having double-checked the rules, I'd say you can't.
If so, then the above Dummy Jeep/Sherman sleaze could spread like COVID.
von Marwitz
"A12.11 KNOWN/DUMMY ENEMY UNIT: ... A ⅝" Dummy stack can claim to be an Emplaced Gun (without Emplacement TEM) or a vehicle but, except for moving, is treated like a ½-inch Dummy stack for concealment loss. ..."I don't buy either of these premises. I referenced your example from the Perry Sez Q+A thread in the 5/8" Dummy stack thread I started. If you could please explain your reasoning as to why you think your example is correct, how you arrived at the MP allowance and switching between " vehicle " types as legitimate and legal I for one would be very interested.
Thanks!!
Still don't buy it, sorry. Too much leeway and not what was the rule's original intent IMHO."A12.11 KNOWN/DUMMY ENEMY UNIT: ... A ⅝" Dummy stack can claim to be an Emplaced Gun (without Emplacement TEM) or a vehicle but, except for moving, is treated like a ½-inch Dummy stack for concealment loss. ..."
"... Dummy stacks can be created only during initial setup and among OB-designated "?" reinforcements during their initial turn of entry. ..."
Per the first quote of A12.11 a 5/8" Dummy can claim to be a vehicle. As it is not treated like a 1/2" Dummy for purposes of moving, this can only mean that is it treated as a vehicle for such purposes. As 'fake DRs' are N/A for Dummies, I guess it could not act as a Pushed Gun because this would require a 'fake' Manhandling DR. Claiming to be 'a' vehicle does not limit this claim to a particular type of vehicle IHMO, as long as it behaves in a way any vehicle could conceivably behave [EXC: as no fake DRs are allowed, it probably could not pose as a vehicle with red MP numbers after stopping and then wanting to resume movement again, as this would require a 'fake Mechanical Reliability DR.]. Just as 'a' 1/2" Dummy can act as a MMC or SMC (or possessed SW for that matter).
Per the second quote of A12.11, the creation of a Dummy stack is limited to the initial setup or the initial turn of entry if part of reinforcements. You can create Dummies either in the 1/2" or the 5/8" variant at these specified times only (regardless of which type of 1/2" unit or 5/8" unit they elect to act later). For that reason, I don't think that you can switch 1/2" to 5/8" Dummies or vice versa once they have been initially created.
von Marwitz
Probably comes down to being a gamer, a gamer that plays military "simulations", or perhaps a person that is interested in WW-II that is also happens to be a gamer. The pure gamer really doesn't give a hoot about intent, if it's allowed go for it; A person that's a gamer but has an interest in military simulations as a game might consider using the lack of specificity in a rule to their advantage in a game but overall enjoys the flavor of the "simulation" no matter how streatched the reality may seem; The historical gamer would be appalled at using the holes in rules to ruin his considered "intent"of the rule.Still don't buy it, sorry. Too much leeway and not what was the rule's original intent IMHO.
It would be like moving a 1/2" Dummy stack through Snow as if they were Ski equipped when that nationality does not have Ski troops.
I'm not happy with that example but in the middle of scooping litter boxes. More later.
Well I do consider myself a gamer first which is why I would like the rule clarified so the game can be played correctly. A 12.11 gives examples of how a Dummy 1/2" stack can be moved but doesn't do the same for 5/8".Probably comes down to being a gamer, a gamer that plays military "simulations", or perhaps a person that is interested in WW-II that is also happens to be a gamer. The pure gamer really doesn't give a hoot about intent, if it's allowed go for it; A person that's a gamer but has an interest in military simulations as a game might consider using the lack of specificity in a rule to their advantage in a game but overall enjoys the flavor of the "simulation" no matter how streatched the reality may seem; The historical gamer would be appalled at using the holes in rules to ruin his considered "intent"of the rule.
A better example might be if the side with 1/2" Dummy stacks has only Conscripts and is moving those Dummy stacks as if they were 1st line units.Still don't buy it, sorry. Too much leeway and not what was the rule's original intent IMHO.
It would be like moving a 1/2" Dummy stack through Snow as if they were Ski equipped when that nationality does not have Ski troops.
I'm not happy with that example but in the middle of scooping litter boxes. More later.
Still don't buy it, sorry. Too much leeway and not what was the rule's original intent IMHO.
It would be like moving a 1/2" Dummy stack through Snow as if they were Ski equipped when that nationality does not have Ski troops.
I'm not happy with that example but in the middle of scooping litter boxes. More later.
I see no problem with that at all.A better example might be if the side with 1/2" Dummy stacks has only Conscripts and is moving those Dummy stacks as if they were 1st line units.
Agree - they are usually used the "hide" the position of defender's real AFV. This whole "move a 5/8" dummy stack across board" scenario is too unlikely to worry much about, IMHO (of course).This does limit the usefulness of 5/8ths dummies.
Fun scenario! Maneuver may be an under appreciated aspect of the game but your experience seems rather extreme.It was SL's "Escape from Velikiye Luki" - I managed to evacuate all of my German squads without a single shot. Soviets couldn't attack/move if they didn't see Wehrmacht troops, and they were placed so misfortunately that the whole scenario was just me moving Germans from one corner to the other.
I could imagine that it might be useful to turn a dummy into a jeep in order to get it into a hex with a concealed vehicle; if your opponent was acting like he knew which one was real and which wasn't, you might be able to regain some fog of war.The only case I can think of in which it could theoretically make sense is by using such movement to prevent the enemy to gain Concealment and this outweighs keeping the opponent unsure about the nature of your Dummies. On top of that, as you have to stay out of enemy LOS while moving around, you rarely have a chance to pull this off even if you wanted to.