Missing Counter?

wrongway149

Forum Guru
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,403
Reaction score
2,099
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Some nations have 'static' MG mounts (AA versions) as ordnance counters -- What would a water-cooled M2 .50 cal be? 10-16?

The original photo claimed is was a USMC weapon on Guadalcanal.

16305
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Without power traverse (like on the M16 half track) I have to wonder how truly useful this thing was.

Pete, there is film of one of these in operation in the TORA TORA TORA movie, as I believe they have one defending the hangars at Ford Island. You can see one at 0:19 of this clip


but there is better footage of it in the film, a sailor with his shirt hanging off Sgt. Rock style firing at incoming airplanes.
 
Last edited:

RandyT0001

Elder Member
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
1,055
Reaction score
1,272
Location
Memphis, TN
First name
Cary
Country
llUnited States
Without power traverse (like on the M16 half track) I have to wonder how truly useful this thing was.

Pete, there is film of one of these in operation in the TORA TORA TORA movie, as I believe they have one defending the hangars at Ford Island. You can see one at 0:19 of this clip


but there is better footage of it in the film, a sailor with his shirt hanging off Sgt. Rock style firing at incoming airplanes.
That sailor got a carrier named after him.

 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,913
Reaction score
5,094
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
Some nations have 'static' MG mounts (AA versions) as ordnance counters -- What would a water-cooled M2 .50 cal be? 10-16?

The original photo claimed is was a USMC weapon on Guadalcanal.

View attachment 16305
I would certainly rate it as a 16 hex range wpn, 8 FP, but with a repair of possibly 1 (always thought the R# for the .30-cal HMG was a little high as well) because of the complexity of the system. Though perhaps shown here in a free traverse situation the pintel mount could be locked down with a quick release to better engage predetermined tagets and firer supports would afford a more stable firing platform. Coupled with a better (i.e. larger) sight I believe it would allow for good performance vs ground targets even tough quite sure sure its anticipated use was primarily against aircraft. JHMHO as I've never fired one.
 

Chas

Elder Member
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
1,790
Country
llUnited States
FYI. The standard 50 cal has very easy T&E on the tripod. Can lock into an elevation and go side to side spraying a certain range.
Can lock both to basically hammer a certain point.
 

wrongway149

Forum Guru
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,403
Reaction score
2,099
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
FYI. The standard 50 cal has very easy T&E on the tripod. Can lock into an elevation and go side to side spraying a certain range.
Can lock both to basically hammer a certain point.
Probably one reason it is still in service all over. Just don't lose your head space and timing gauge.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Probably one reason it is still in service all over. Just don't lose your head space and timing gauge.
I've done the TOETs for it but never fired it - the infantry here were quite upset about losing theirs, though, as it was quite popular. But that was in a ground role, on a low-slung tripod with a number two guiding the belt, not trying to track a moving aircraft with it with a giant drum magazine attached to one side....
 

Old Noob

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
2,177
Reaction score
2,330
Country
llUnited States
That thing's got to be at least 10 portage points.
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Several St.Etienne mle 1915 Water-cooled, fixed mount machine guns were removed by Germany after the Netherlands capitulated. In a fixed mount configuration within their bunkers, their slower rate of fire made them effective.

When removed to be used as ersatz machine guns for later Axis-aligned nationals fighting on the Eastern Front, the St.Etienne's had a poorly constructed, welded tubular frame tripod made for them. It was a fixed tripod but a portable mount. Many of these machine guns then ended up being issued.

When we designed scenarios using these seized and re-purposed MGs, we ultimately came to the decision to represent them in ASL as German 5-12 MMGs, with an SSR that they are 4PP SWs, B11, and cannot be dismantled.

The overall design did not compensate as a high (3) ROF, B12 MG.


There are other examples already in ASL designs, including many of the Maxim-08 concept as a crew-served portable, (relatively speaking) machine gun.
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Can always revert to the use of the field expedient of a nickle and a dime; works just as well to set head-space.
Carried in my flight suit for years. highly effective tool for the job. I wonder if John Browning meant for it to be designed thusly.
 

Actionjick

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
7,466
Reaction score
4,989
Location
Kent, Ohio
First name
Darryl
Country
llUnited States
Carried in my flight suit for years. highly effective tool for the job. I wonder if John Browning meant for it to be designed thusly.
I enjoy it when you guys get into the nitty gritty of these discussions. Can't think of an equivalent in the engine room. 🤔
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Doris used a twin water cooled .50 cal.
 
Top